Man who videotaped himself BASE jumping in Yosemite arrested, says it was AI (latimes.com)
45 points by harambae 3 hours ago
zamadatix 2 hours ago
jfengel 11 minutes ago
Was it legitimately his instagram account that posted the video?
If it was a brand new account, then it seems possible that it's a fake.
But if somebody also had to hack his account to make this video... I suppose it's not impossible but you'd really, really be pushing "reasonable doubt" to it's limits.
simonw 2 hours ago
If it "was AI" it should be easy enough for him to prove by pulling up his account on whatever AI video generation service he used and showing the generation in his account history.
(I do not think it was AI.)
SunshineTheCat an hour ago
True, and I agree with you on it not being AI, however, the burden is on the prosecution to prove guilt, not for a defendant to prove innocence.
But you are correct, if it was in fact AI, showing how he (or someone else) made it at the time would certainly help get him off the hook.
Guy could've probably picked a better place to base jump anyway, national parks are notorious for having a billion laws that don't really exist anywhere else.
You can't even take your cat white river rafting on the grand canyon >:( https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/7.4
psds2 2 hours ago
Maybe he doesn't have to prove that though. If he can find an expert witness who will make claims that based on their expert analysis it is possible this video is AI generated, and he does not testify himself, then that may be enough to introduce reasonable doubt.
otterley 40 minutes ago
Also I’d be surprised if the only evidence introduced by the prosecution is the video. There may be other eyewitnesses, evidence of equipment usage, communications with others prior to the event about his intent, and so forth.
627467 44 minutes ago
But shouldn't it be the prosecution proving the video is real?
pcaharrier 14 minutes ago
Yes, but only if the judge who gets the case believes in silly things like "Federal Rules of Evidence."
Sharlin 2 hours ago
Maybe he did it with a local model!
(Yeah, me neither.)
dragonwriter an hour ago
That would also be easy to demonstrate, if true.
otterley 41 minutes ago
cheeze 2 hours ago
I don't think it was AI either but I don't think that would hold up in court.
schaefer 2 hours ago
There are lots of places to legally BASE jump in Europe. You can even take a gondola to the jump point. But very very few legal options in the USA.
I wish there were more places to legally enjoy BASE jumping on US public lands.
dlcarrier 43 minutes ago
It's legal by default on US federal land, (e.g. BLM or USFS) which covers about a fifth of the country, and is especially concentrated in areas with mountainous and other earthen terrain that is favorable to BASE jumpers. We just take a very small portion of that land, designate it national parks or forests, make everything illegal there, dump all of our tourists there, and charge them to park.
There's far more to see outside of those national parks and forests than there is inside. Look up any paragliders or bush pilots on YouTube that live near federal land, and they pretty much go wherever they want to go.
If you're an avid hiker or camper and are visiting the US, find local documentation on where to visit or befriend someone in the area who can make recommendations, and you'll get to see our natural landscape without all of the tourists or regulations. You can legally BASE jump off a cliff, hike in the nude, mine for gold, set up an impromptu gun range, and camp there for a couple of weeks, or indefinitely if you hike two miles each day.
mikelitoris 2 hours ago
They don’t want to deal with the liability lawsuits.
_qua 2 hours ago
Would there be liability lawsuits for this happening on public land? Might it be more a matter of them not wanting to do body clean up once a week?
al_borland 2 hours ago
etrautmann 2 hours ago
mikkupikku 2 hours ago
They probably don't want to deal with the bodies either. One man's thrill seeking is another man's lasting psychological trauma.
etrautmann 2 hours ago
then we need tort reform to address the root cause. This is so silly and unfortunate that wild spaces are litigated and made illegal for things that are normal and wonderful elsewhere.
ekjhgkejhgk 2 hours ago
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rafram 2 hours ago
Not sure what warrants the name-calling and whataboutism here. Who's talking about "predators"? This thread is about BASE jumping.
rafram 2 hours ago
Noteworthy that he claimed that when talking to an investigator prior to being charged. We'll see if he's willing to make the same claim in court. (He's apparently representing himself...)
arduanika 2 hours ago
That tracks. BASE jumping and representing yourself share a common philosophy towards risk.
ribosometronome 2 hours ago
>talking to an investigator prior to being charged
Isn't lying to a federal investigator also a crime? Searching suggests 18 U.S.C. § 1001.
nerdsniper 3 minutes ago
Yes.
SCOTUS ruled very strictly on this in 1998. James Brogan was visited by Federal agents at his home and asked if he had accepted illegal cash payments from a company. Brogan simply answered "No."
SCOTUS upheld his conviction for this under U.S.C. § 1001. His only legal options were to say “Yes” or state his choice to exercise his 5th amendment right to remain silent.
Similar laws apply to interactions with pretty much any LEO in any US state, though the lie must be material to a criminal investigation. Note that some states make nearly everything a misdemeanor crime (like speeding 5mph over the limit) whereas other states make many of those things civil infractions.
joshstrange an hour ago
> Isn't lying to a federal investigator also a crime?
It depends on how much money you have.
munk-a 2 hours ago
Gosh there's a lot of corollary evidence pointing to his guilt but this is likely going to become more and more common and force the use of a lot more technical forensic resources.
Finding an original copy on a go-pro would likely be pretty compelling evidence but this (and the more scary politically centered questions like this) are why I wish we had a way to build a durable chain of custody into these technologies. It is infeasible from everything I've seen but it would be a big win for society.
vbezhenar 2 hours ago
Put private key into every digital camera and hash/sign every frame. That private key is accompanied with manufacturer signature and can't be easily extracted. Mark all unsigned media as suspicious.
widdershins 2 hours ago
"and can't be easily extracted" is doing a lot of work there. People are very good at reverse-engineering. There would soon be a black market for 'clean' private keys that could be used to sign any video you want.
nerdsniper 2 hours ago
munk-a 2 hours ago
eqvinox 2 hours ago
"can't easily be extracted" = "the number of people who can extract it is small but still non-zero"
And those people now have the power to put you in jail, by putting your camera's signature on illegal content.
You've also just made journalism 3 notches harder. Like documenting atrocities in, say, North Korea. Or for whistleblowers in your home steel mill run by a corporate slavedriver.
Oh. Also. Why are you choosing the camera side to put this on? Why not the AI side? Require watermarks and signatures for anything created in such a way…
…of course that has its own set of intractable problems.
nerdsniper 2 hours ago
caterama 2 hours ago
That makes it easy to prove authenticity (has signature), but doesn’t solve the “prove it’s fake” problem.
nerdsniper 2 hours ago
gabrielsroka 2 hours ago
Isn't that similar to this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_Authenticity_Initiativ...
malfist 2 hours ago
That certainly won't be used to violate someone's privacy.
acessoproibido 2 hours ago
More surveillance and tracking won't be the solution.
dmitrygr 2 hours ago
> I wish we had a way to build a durable chain of custody into these technologies
Do you? Consider for a moment all the dissidents and protestors who would be ensnared by their own devices then, with no "it was all ai" defense available?
munk-a 2 hours ago
I do - I think the videos and pictures that protestors smuggle out become less powerful if the state can dismiss them as fake and while most of us will remain skeptical of authority the more easy it is to fake something the more people you can convince of your falsehood.
I don't think the lack of a durable chain of custody really provides any protection - that protection needs to come from a strong legal system and social contract to protect whistleblowers. If you're thinking of, as an example, an Iranian smuggling out protest footage, they're already taking an extreme risk and have a state using numerous tools to try and track them down - but the lack of a durable chain gives a wide area of authorities to cast doubt on the truth.
I think your question is interesting to ponder and I think there are arguments in both directions - but my mind keeps coming back to the tank man photo being smuggled out of China and how much more difficult it would be in the modern world for a single image to carry such weight.
eqvinox 2 hours ago
RobotToaster 2 hours ago
Film cameras may be making a comeback.
bsder 2 hours ago
> Gosh there's a lot of corollary evidence pointing to his guilt but this is likely going to become more and more common and force the use of a lot more technical forensic resources.
Nah. People who do something like this can't help but brag. They'll incriminate themselves in seconds voluntarily.
tokai 2 hours ago
Couldn't you just match the noise profile of the camera with the video?
cheeze 2 hours ago
How do you find the camera?
"I extracted and added the noise profile to the AI generated video with a goPro to make it look legitimate"
changoplatanero 2 hours ago
They got him for illegal BASE jumping and now they are going to get him for lying to the police about it too.
keysersoze33 2 hours ago
Anyone who base jumps with a bulky videotape recorder instead of GoPro deserves to arrested ;)
wasmainiac 2 hours ago
Do you have a link? Dudes got class.
keysersoze33 2 hours ago
I'm sure it was a GoPro - was mocking the journalist's use of the Ye olde term 'videotaped'
wasmainiac an hour ago
RobotToaster 2 hours ago
Why the hell is based jumping illegal?
tredre3 2 hours ago
Because it's very dangerous and first responders access in national parks isn't always easy. You can obtain a permit to do it, however, see this memo that summarizes the current situation:
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/policy/upload/NPS_Guidance_Memo...
al_borland 2 hours ago
It seems danger and first responder access would also be a problem for free solo climbing, yet that gets a pass.
Der_Einzige 2 hours ago
Maybe just refuse to try to help them? Why can't we let people win darwin awards anymore instead of criminalizing it? The people doing this are adrenaline junkies who often would LOVE to die this way if they had to. That's why they are doing it.
For similar reasons, suicide should not be criminalized. Yes I am serious.
mikkupikku 2 hours ago
dlcarrier 35 minutes ago
NIMBYists concentrate their efforts on national forests and parks, so everything is illegal there. Cross the boarder outside of Yosemite, and you're in unregulated forestry land where you can camp for weeks without a permit and walk wherever you want.
bee_rider 2 hours ago
Most likely to avoid wasting emergency services.
Although, it would be nice if we could give people a general “I understand the risk and won’t ask for help if it goes wrong” waiver for dangerous activities.
Mooshux 2 hours ago
Ha ... everything is AI now. No accountability.
sorokod 2 hours ago
Plausible denAIbility
moralestapia 2 hours ago
Oof. Risky move.
If the prosecution can prove it was legit, that's prison for sure.
beached_whale 2 hours ago
lying to federal officers is what nailed Martha Stewart
Devasta 2 hours ago
We have to plan for this to become more common in future.
You trying to start a union in your workplace? Expect video of you jacking off in public to leak online. Video of cop mercilessly beating a black guy? Inadmissible, could have been AI.
It will only get worse as video and audio generation get better and better.
onetokeoverthe 2 hours ago
>>A license plate reader detected his car entering the national park on Oct. 7 and leaving Oct. 8,
This flock stuff is b.a.d.
iLemming 2 hours ago
It's not even the fact that digital evidence is being used in courts these days, the disturbing thought is, all in all, that it's not that implausible for malicious actors to fake anyone's activity. How would you prove that you weren't at the crime scene when there's a digital footprint of your phone's GPS data, corroborated by (albeit not crystal clear) images and video?
ultrarunner 2 hours ago
I'd probably be most inspired to make an AI video of doing something awesome in a national park just after having visited the park, too.
They'll need a flock cam on the summit if they want to push that any further.
tjr 2 hours ago
Maybe AI was driving his car.
eqvinox 2 hours ago
The fact that this is simultaneously a joke yet also has to be realistically considered is… alarming.
Xmd5a 2 hours ago
bikes into thread
BASED jumping is an acronym that stand for five categories of fixed objects from which one can jump:
- Buildings
- Antennas
- Spans
- Earth
- Deepfakes
bikes outhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1ULJ92aldE (<- finally found the track used in so many CNC machining youtube shorts).