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I know 16 colours is limiting, but one of my biggest pet peeves is CLI / TUI developers creating their own custom themes using colours outside of that because odds are, they’re going to generate a colour scheme that is harder to read for a lot of people with visual impairments, people who prefer a white or coloured background for eye comfort, people are dyslexic and find non-black backgrounds easier to read, and others with visual difficulties, reading difficulties, or those who just like a different colour scheme per project or environment they’re working in so they can multitask more easily.

And the developers answer to this loss of control is to create multiple colour schemes and allow the user to configure the app. Which then means their users have to set up their terminal defaults and then configure every fscking app that ignores those terminal defaults(!!!) instead of defining their required colour schemes once in the terminal.

People use the terminal not because it’s pretty but because they find a text interface more efficient. If you want to make pretty things then build a web frontend. But please do not break my terminal because you feel the need to impose on me your own favourite colours of the hour.

> provide a [...] consistent experience

Please just don't. This is not the web.

Color usage in the terminal should be largely semantic, not stylistic.

Speaking for the group of people I know and work with, we don't want a "consistent experience" and hate TUIs that try to manhandle the color palette. Use color sparingly and with intention. Respect that different people have different settings.

> which gives us a very high level of confidence that 146 will be a muted violet

Is there anything you can do with that information though? This piece of information only becomes useful if you know what colour the background is. And you should also know the colour of text and everything else.

What if the background is muted violet? What if the background is white and the foreground is muted violet? I don't want you to ever use "muted violet" in my terminal, since you have no idea what colours there are in my terminal.

> This is very useful for colorscheme developers

I would posit then that this article simply doesn't apply to you at all. The feature being described is targetted at users who are effectively developing their own schemes (albeit in a rather simplified automated manner). If I'm taking something off the shelf, I'm using the appropriate recommended base16. I have no expectation that a wild base16 is going to align with any 3rd-party's curated scheme.

I do understand that this logic isn't always going to click with people given the differing contexts of a terminal-wide -vs- app-specific (i.e. vim) approach, but again: that disparity seems either a legacy issue (caused by things like this 16-256 mis-alignment) OR simply a philosophical difference (whereby people who customise at the term level shouldn't at the app level & vice-versa).

Terminals like iTerm2 have had a Minimum Contrast for a while that messes with (foreground) colours, sometimes very badly.

> and consistent experience across the widest range of terminal emulators.

Instead of aiming to provide a "consistent experience", you should instead prioritize providing consistent functionality, while avoiding impeding users' control over their own particular experience.

I think it's an interesting idea, but should be set as an option and default to off, for the reason you describe.

If the user sets a sensible 16 color palette though, many old utils could look great out of the box. I'm enticed by the idea.

There are escape codes that can re-define palette entries. Usually including the 16-255 range.

I'm sorry, but I find this mentality from app developers extremely annoying.

I personally prefer light themes everywhere, both in IDEs and in the terminal. I thought that just choosing my own color scheme for 0-15 would give me the color pallette that I prefer, but because app developers like you for some reason decided that you know better what colors do I prefer, this is actually not enough. I also have to configure each TUI application separately to have the color scheme that I like.

And I do not understand why people do it. Like, why would you deliberately break the universal customization system and force users to use your own, specific to your app?

Honesty, each time I encounter an app that uses 16-255 colors, I feel like someone just violated my personal space and intruded into my chosen color pallette with their own colors that don't fit.

This will be fascinating to see in practice, with ghostty for example shipping these changes! I expect that the concern you have here will largely be for naught, with some exception. What are some terminal apps you think might be affected, what are test cases?

I didn't read in fully, but what I was thinking in my head is not that we would just totally replace the rest of the colors with arbitrary palette. But that we would sub in better versions of the palette that also used user colors as the base. What was magenta is derived from what the user picked from blue and red.

There's always been such tension between design/creative and users. Apps & designers want their own brand identity, want creative control to make things just so. And are willing to throw user preference & desire on the pyre to get that exacting control. Personally that was always rubbed me extremely the wrong way; I would way rather allow some weirdness & funkiness in, if it leaves the user in control. But I understand the risk aversion, understand the Murphy's law corporatism that makes people and companies want to build strong laws that forbid anything but strictly approved systems, for fear that things go wrong. I understand. But I also things that's a dogshit world to live in.

The way it's supposed to work is you don't touch the terminal colors but instead configure the program to use different colors. So you don't invert black for a dark theme, instead the program uses white instead of black.

By the way, the terminal foreground and background colors are independent of the standard 16 colors, which complicates things.

Unless you provide a way to configure the colors, it’s better to simply rely on bold, reverse, and standout. If you using the 16p, don’t use black and white unless you know ehat the background is, and use the others sparingly and semantically (no rainbow soup). If you’re going for 256p, it should be in a theme engine that’s user configurable.

Interesting. You could build a LUT from the 16 color palette to map the 24 bit color space to something 24 bits or less. A bit like mapping 10 bit HDR to 24 bit sRGB.

Perhaps instead of the application overriding the setting, it could be done with an environment var, so the user can easily override it if the mapping messes with the look/usability of the program.

Other than red and green, for semantic reasons, a CLI tools shouldn’t bother with colors. And it should support text markers instead of colors for the occasional piping.

they explicitly had an opinion about true color, right in the article we’re discussing

> From what I know all modern terminal emulators in all operating systems support it now.

urxvt prominently doesn't (fully)

Doesn't work. You don't have full control over every color all the time and you're going to make assumptions. That's kinda the point.

The entire point is to not use true colour but rather a user-configurable theme, but with 256 colours.

We're probably close enough to a future with the technology and engineering able to implement it, to justify designing 48-bit perceptual bit depth standards. Optimistically presuming breakthroughs enabling in vivo biological upgrades to our eyes to match those of mantis shrip, we could design 160-bit standards knowing that is a "proven" biological technology capability. That gets within the same galactic supercluster of the known limits of physics limits.

At the currently known limits of physics where Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, Abbe's Limit, Quantum Shot Noise and such become our sensing barriers, we suspect we need only about 6000 bits per pixel to represent a digital twin of the electromagnetic field of the sensor-covered volume of space. At 60 fps, that is 1.8 Zettabits per second. Scale out data volume accordingly when using using 18.5 sexdecillion fps (Planck time fps).

What surprises me is these "limits of the fabric of reality as we know it" mind experiments fairly concretely point the way on the many roads towards Kardashev Scale implementations, and is not that different from Archimedes' "Sand Reckoner" and Hindu cosmological Kalpa time scales. History doesn't quite repeat, but rhymes yet again.

> Many are completely unreadable and lack sufficient contrast.

I am not colorblind, and have the same experience. It's made worse by the fact that different apps use colors differently, so if I find a theme that works well for some clis and tuis, there will be others that will have unreadably low contrast with the default theme. So I have to tweak the colorscheme for each application as well.

Color 0 to 15 are user-customizable by all terminals I know of. Color 16 to 255 are standardized, and the same across all terminals. Most (good?) cli and TUI use the first sets, while any that uses the second set usually are used through a theme engine (per app customization though).

The OP specifically says why that isn't ideal:

The mainstream solution is to use truecolor and gain access to 16 million colors. But there are drawbacks:

    Each truecolor program needs its own theme configuration.
    Changing your color scheme means editing multiple config files.
    Light/dark switching requires explicit support from program maintainers.
    Truecolor escape codes are longer and slower to parse.
    Fewer terminals support truecolor.

I think your wish is self-contradicting. `#fff` is so-called _device_ colour -- a device like a LED-based display uses it directly to drive the LEDs, where `#fff` means that the red, the green and the blue channel are already "cranked to 11". The `f` here is equivalent to 11. HDR uses a different color format, I think -- exactly because `#fff` is otherwise either ambigous, or has to map to a different colour gamut -- where, for instance, `#fff` actually means the whitest white cranked up to 11, at however many nits (say 1500) the monitor may emit, which would make your "standard" or "SDR" white (per sRGB, say) that's usually has the emitted strength of around 100 nits, be somewhere at `#888` (I haven't taken into account the _curve_ implied here, at any rate I don't think it's going to be a linear relationship between nits and device primary N-bit colour numbers).

Also, `#fff` is ambigous -- if you mean device colour, then there's no brightness (nits) specified at all, it may be 200 or 2000 or 10,000. If sRGB is implied, as in `#fff in sRGB colour space` then the standard specifies 80 nits, so when you say you don't want brighter than that, then you can't have much of HDR since sRGB precludes HDR by definition (can't go brighter than 80 nits for the "whitepoint" aka white).

I think if you want HDR you need a different colour space entirely, which either has a different peak brightness, or one where the brightness is specified additionally to e.g. R, G and B primaries. But here my HDR knowledge is weak -- perhaps someone else may chime in. I just find colour science fascinating, sorry to go on a tangent here.

I'm pretty sure the word "custom" refers to the act of choosing among builtin themes in the terminal. Some terminals like ghostty have hundreds builtin.

That would be a super-niche setting, but an interesting idea nonetheless.

I feel like you're saying one operating system does it better, but I fail to think of one.

That's hardly a harsh truth. We use the terminal model because it works good enough and there are decades of software that rely on it. There are certainly other models that could work, but so far they haven't been adopted. I'd love Mathematica style notebooks for my shell work.

That's 9front/Plan9. No actual terminals, but windows with shells.

GUI apps are good for discoverability. They generally are not optimized for rapid use by power users though. That's of course not an inherent limitation of GUI apps, it's just that dominant paradigms hardly seem to consider power users.

I'm still annoyed and baffled by the fact that Ubuntu had searchable application menus 10 years ago, which were awesome and worked for just about any program, and then dropped them when they abandoned Unity. And neither KDE not Gnome thought to bring them back. In stead, many apps have since dropped application menus entirely, in favour of... some mishmash of icons and ad hoc menu buttons?

Also, even in the post-LLM era, building a decent GUI app is a lot more work than building a decent terminal app.

Terminals are text. Text adds features missing from gui namely:

* Ad Hoc

requirements change and terminal gives ultimate empty workbench flexibility. awesome for tasks you never new you had until that moment.

* Precision

run precisely what you want, when you want it. you are not constrained by gui UX limits.

* Pipeline

cat file.txt | perl/awk/sed/jq | tee output.result

* Equal Status

everything is text so you can combine clipboard, files, netcat output, curl output and then you can transform (above) and save. whatever you like in whatever form you like, named whatever you like.

Why? There is huge compatibility layer build on top of this and changing even these minor things will break stuff in places you do not expect. Want a fancy terminal? Install another one. By default most allow changing to many terminal formats. Break things to move forward is fun when it's not your problem to solve down the line.

Personally, I find a REPL-based programming interface to be the most flexible and powerful way to interact with code.

My typical interface is that I have an editor open where I write package code, and then I have a julia REPL open beside it where I load the package (or includet the script or testset). Any changes I make with my editor to functions or structs in the package / script / testset are automatically reflected in my running julia session via Revise.jl.

I then execute the functions interactively from the REPL, introspect into data or generated code, debug, run benchmarks etc all from the REPL.

GUIs are great for many things, but they lack the flexibility I need for my day to day work.

Graphical applications are great if your workflow mirrors the workflow that the GUI was designed for. However if your workflow differs then you’ll often be fighting the GUI.

Think of it like different types of programming languages. Some are more suited on different types of problems than others.

For me, my workflow is about composing and gluing different processes together rather than using a standard defined tool repeatedly in the same way as that tools UI was originally designed. So the CLI is ideally suited for me in all the areas where a GUI would be high friction.

> it's not clear to me what type of work those people are doing.

As little as possible. Anything that can be done in a terminal can be scripted and automated, put under version control, and deployed using modern CI/CD and devops tools.

Terminals can show images https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/graphics-protocol/

Sixel and ReGIS have been around for decades.

It's a shame to see you get downvoted (presumably because you don't cite any evidence for your assertions). As a counter-point, I will give the oft-quoted-by-me 1990s promotional video of the use of IBM CallPath on an AS/400 which should get you all misty-eyed https://youtu.be/5pY6Xxptp9A?t=2058

Enjoy.

I don't know any GUI that beats tmux work portability.

Of course everything depends on exact nature of the work, but personally I would gladly leave text based interfaces behind, it's just that there's nothing better.

Unix downvoters should have a look on 9front (the most featureful/supported plan9 fork out there) in order to realize that you can follow the Unix philosophy (even more than OpenBSD itself) tossing the VT100 emulators to the legacy 'vt' emulator if you want somehow use ancient software (or SSH) while setting actual graphical windows with the shell running inside with no terminals at all. No more damn control codes messing up everything. No more linebreaks. You can cut down your text with the mouse from day one. Even under Sam, which is something like a graphical Ed crossed with Notepad and much more powerful expressions than Ex/Vi ones.