Emacs internals: Tagged pointers vs. C++ std:variant and LLVM (Part 3) (thecloudlet.github.io)

54 points by thecloudlet 7 hours ago

ndesaulniers 2 hours ago

Happy to see discussion of LLVM's interesting implementation of Static Polymorphism using CRTP. Some recommended reads:

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiously_recurring_template_p...

2. https://david.alvarezrosa.com/posts/devirtualization-and-sta...

3. https://llvm.org/docs/ProgrammersManual.html#the-isa-cast-an...

tialaramex 6 hours ago

It's not clear to me (and as an unsafe language it's not called out by your compiler if you do something illegal) what the correct way to spell this kind of trick is in C++

I had thought you need the pointer-sized integer types and mustn't do this directly to an actual pointer, but maybe I was wrong (in theory, obviously practice doesn't follow but that's a dangerous game)

thecloudlet 5 hours ago

Doing bitwise operations directly on raw pointers is a fast track to Undefined Behavior in standard C/C++. Emacs gets away with it largely due to its age, its heavy reliance on specific GCC behaviors/extensions, and how its build system configures compiler optimizations.

In modern C++, the technically "correct" and safe way to spell this trick is exactly as you suggested: using uintptr_t (or intptr_t).

trws 5 hours ago

There’s a paper in flight to add a stdlib type to handle pointer tagging as well while preserving pointer provenance and so-forth. It’s currently best to use the intptr types, but the goal is to make it so that an implementation can provide specializations based on what bits of a pointer are insignificant, or even ignored, on a given target without user code having to be specialized. Not sure where it has landed since discussion in SG1 but seemed like a good idea.

tialaramex 4 hours ago

VorpalWay 2 hours ago

Do (u)intptr_t preserve provenance? Or does this count as exposed provenance when you convert back and forth?

Maybe that is not the correct C++ terminology, I'm more familiar with how provenance works in Rust, where large parts of it got stabilised a little over a year ago. (What was stabilised was "strict provenance", which is a set of rules that if you abide them will definitely be correct, but it is possible the rules might be loosened in the future to be more lenient.)

https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/ptr/index.html#provenance

tialaramex an hour ago

jcranmer an hour ago

shadowgovt 5 hours ago

Is there a similar solution to doing this in Rust? I suppose inside `unsafe` you can do basically anything.

tialaramex 4 hours ago

trws 4 hours ago

simonask 4 hours ago

thecloudlet 5 hours ago

jandrewrogers 3 hours ago

The idiomatic way to safely do pointer tagging in C++ works through uintptr_t.

If you don't care about portability or using every theoretically available bit then it is trivial. A maximalist implementation must be architecture aware and isn't entirely knowable at compile-time. This makes standardization more complicated since the lowest common denominator is unnecessarily limited.

In C++ this really should be implemented through a tagged pointer wrapper class that abstracts the architectural assumptions and limitations.

db48x 5 hours ago

Do the way LLVM does it.

thecloudlet 7 hours ago

Emacs internal part 2 HN link:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47259961

mshockwave an hour ago

LLVM now has another way to implement RTTI using the `CastInfo` trait instead of `classof`: https://llvm.org/doxygen/structllvm_1_1CastInfo.html

But it's really just an implementation difference, the idea is still to have a lightweight RTTI.