Hacker News

Wow I never realized I had this problem until now! I never even considered the reason keys would dispatch to the wrong window was because of the animation. I just knew that sometimes when switching workspaces I'd have to wait until whatever window I'm switching to has focus before typing.

This is such an insane bug to still have around all these years.

Are apple engineers not using macOS?

I noticed this immediately when I first used a 120Hz macbook in 2021. As a vanilla MacOS UI feature that I'm sure many people use, I can't believe it hasn't been fixed yet.

Don't know about customizability on MacOS but I've always been very accustomed to animations and recently I just turned them off on Android and Linux and I... Don't miss anything. Turned out they don't add anything other than an initial wow factor.

I also have a 120Hz Mac, and the animation is indeed slower in 120Hz mode. In my opinion, the animation crossed the line from "too slow but bearable" to "unbearable" with 120Hz. It is as you say; it's not really the animation itself that's the problem, but the delay from when I tell my machine "switch to this other workspace" until the focus switches to a window on that other workspace. The animation has this horrible ease-out effect where the last few centimeters take what feels like forever.

Getting a 120Hz Mac actually completely changed my whole macOS philosophy. I used to use spaces extremely heavily. I now almost don't use them at all, preferring window switching with cmd+tab instead.

The infuriating thing is that almost all discussion on this on the web just says "turn on reduced motion". Not only should that be unnecessary; it doesn't even fix the problem! Sure, there's no longer a sliding animation, but there's now a fade animation instead which takes just as long.

It's completely incomprehensible that Apple hasn't fixed this.

Sadly, solutions like BetterTouchTool and InstantSpaceSwitcher won't work for me because I prefer to use my trackpad to switch spaces.

EDIT: I actually recorded and compared the switching speeds a while ago: https://old.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/rfmg4e/workspace_swi.... Apologies for the choppy recording, QuickTime screen recording is not very good; but it gets the point across.

I have noticed this bug years before Apple started selling 120hz displays. I thought for sure they would fix it after that, but to my surprise it has persisted...

I think it must go back to High Sierra or Mojave at least.

I've been having the same problem, entering keystrokes in the wrong windows when changing spaces. I'm so glad to know it's not just me, it's the fact that I just a couple months ago bought a new MBP. Thank you!

I would assume it’s something based around whatever deacceleration animation it is calculating? So in the inverse of what you would see in games that don’t support uncapped framerates. It would at least explain why the refresh rate has an inverted relationship

we are a certain type of people here, aren't we?

> I often hear people say no one should care because there aren't many power users.

You also have to consider that not all power users are the same. I’ve been using macOS since the G4 PB days, and would consider myself a power user. I get around in the os just fine and have for years. I also have never felt handcuffed. Some of the macOS 26 visual decisions are/were (some were already changed) questionable, but overall it was a solid upgrade IMO.

> Design good interfaces, with sane defaults

They're not doing that either. And unfortunately bad designs are rarely fatal, so can linger for decades. And animation time waste has little to do with power use, everyone suffers

> They matter a lot because they're the ones that push your design language, develop new ideas, influence the general community, build new programs, find your bugs, and all of that

they used to care, but they don't now, because these corps have sufficient monopolistic control to not require "outsiders" to push their design language, develop new ideas, influence or programs.

In fact, it seems to me that these big corps want power users out, as they disrupt the agenda, find workarounds for "features" being pushed out that should have been mandatory for pleb users!

> [Linux is] still not right for the average joe but it's on its way and a few more specialty distros are already there (e.g. steamos).

i hope that is the future, because it's the only road to freedom for general computation. Unfortunately, the hard part is not the end user's acceptance of it, but the hardware manufacturers, who are being gripped by the balls one way or another. Unless they're willing to sacrifice any microsoft certification etc, they will be somehow beholden to them (may be not now, but certainly in the future when linux truly threatens window's dominance).

I mean this could be solved really easily if the team that works on this exposed some settings to tweak the animation speed. They don't even need UI, people would find them anyway. The problem is the people who work on this do all the animations for windows etc. and I have no idea how they develop this stuff but presumably HI just comes down to them with some number they hardcode into their software so nobody can ever change it.

I love aerospace, but you can definitely feel that it's a hack on top of the macos window manager. If a window starts misbehaving (like, app is frozen or sometimes even just has a top dialog) then aerospace can't move it and you lose its immersive aspects. I also keep getting floating windows lost in the outer limits of the outside wotld, and have to use the native "move to center" in this situation. Oh and that issue with tabs in ghostty or item is annoying - but once again not something aerospace is really responsible for.

With all that said, short of being able to use i3, this is a fantastic WM, couldn't imagine not having it. Use it in combination with karabiner to remap your caps lock key, and suddenly caps lock becomes how you move in macos.

Aerospace makes my Mac usable, but it is a looooong way from what i3 offers in my experience. i3 is way snappier, super stable, with good features out-of-the-box (including a status bar) - you forget it exists. Aerospace is slow, has to use that "windows in the corner" hack, it constantly resets whenever I resume the mac from sleep, needs additional tool for a status bar and more.

Much of it is not a fault of Aerospace, it's just what you get using Apple products in a non-sactioned way.

I was a heavy macOS Spaces user. Upon a recommendation to use Aerospace from somewhere else here a few months ago, I switched and love it. I considered Yabai, but some features required disabling SIP (System Integrity Protection).

The main reason I use Aerospace (after a thorough testing of most macOS third party window managers) is for the space management and instant space switching.

Another happy aerospace here! IMO it does a great job with barely any configuration required (the default config works great, I have barely tweaked it over years of use), that said I’m not exactly power user of tiling WMs, I have one app per workspace 90% of the time

for ghostty users check out https://ghostty.org/docs/help/macos-tiling-wms

Aerospace is incredible.

Another happy Aerospace user here!

It worked great when I switched from yabai some time ago but now it seems to be constantly losing windows and I have to keep resetting it :S

Just wait until you notice that it’s inexplicably slower on 120hz monitors and that your input devices remain focused on the previous space until the animation fully completes!

If you don't want to go insane try to forget before you notice everything else. Might be too late already once you first do though

Oh yes, I've also suddenly had my workspace switcher turn black! Never happened before but it has started happening lately.

macOS has never been bug free, but it feels like they've really been working hard to introduce new bugs lately.

I also switched, but to https://asahi-alarm.org/ (the arch variant) with Sway, right after Software Update ignored my choice to NOT upgrade to Slophoe.

Same same. I'd been a die hard mac user since System 6 in the early 90s, but last year I switched to Asahi Linux and my next hardware may or may not be from Apple.

That is indeed the biggest thing I missed so much. When I finally moved from macOS to KDE I got the grid desktops back and I love them so much.

I have 9 virtual desktops and a 3x3 grid is so much easier to navigate than a row of 9. Also, Apple makes them dynamic now. I have each desktop assigned to a specific purpose. It's like having 9 computers at my fingertips.

Almost every release of macOS after 10.6 or so dropped something I used and the replacement if any was rarely good enough. So it started rubbing me the wrong way, more and more with every release. I'm so glad I'm no longer on an opinionated OS but that I have a desktop environment that cherishes configurability and options.

In keeping with this, for the transition animation you can choose several options like a fade and a slide, you can turn them off completely (as this hack does for macOS). You can even set the speed of some transitions. I have it set to slide but faster than normal. So the sliding gives me a little spatial awareness of where I move within the grid, but it still feels snappy. All just by ticking some options. I love KDE <3

It is very good even though it's in early development. Issues are getting fixed almost as fast as I can find them. I have to use macOS sometimes for work and OmniWM made it bearable.

As someone who never uses spaces or any window manager, what am I actually missing? What’s wrong with cmd tab and just switching between apps? Is this going to be some Kind of major epiphany?!

Same boat and whoa this looks nice! Will give it a try thank you!

+1 for FlashSpace. I used to be an i3 user and MacOS workspace management drove me mad. For years we had TotalSpaces, but that is no longer being maintained. With FlashSpace I finally have a great setup.

My solution has been binding a key Hyper+[a-z] for my applications. When used in conjuction with FlashSpace I get a usable setup. I also heavily rely on native MacOS binding Cmd+` (backtick) to cycle the currently focused application, and mission control for the current workspace.

Let me know if this is interesting; I've been considering creating a YouTube-video about this setup.

If you hold command while you restore the window from the dock it will restore into the current space. I wish i knew how to make this the default. Getting whisked away to a random space is one of the most irritating issues. Like when you want a finder window for downloads and instead of a new window in the current space you get taken cross country to on thats already open.

Press Option to immediately show the close button

I have been dealing with the same issue and thought I was going crazy that the setting which purports to fix this exact behavior simply doesn’t work?

For #1, holding the option key makes the x immediately appear on all of the spaces.

Hey, author here, and cool project! I spent some time comparing Yabai's scripting addition to InstantSpaces' scripting addition. They seem to be doing the exact same thing, but Yabai works while InstantSpaces doesn't, and I eventually gave up trying to figure out why.

Regardless, I still prefer InstantSpaceSwitcher because its implementation is simpler and it doesn't require disabling SIP. If you can get it working, however, I can edit my blog post to say so!

if youre using a firefox based browser, slow fullscreen for media can be fixed by setting the full-screen-api.macos-native-full-screen flag to false in about:config

I agree that I miss when spaces could be on a grid in Snow Leopard instead of only in a straight line, but what is wrong with Exposé? From my POV it works the same as it always has.

Also great from the same developer BetterSnapTool. This is always the first software that I install on my Mac as it allows me to move windows around with keyboard shortcuts. There's many others doing that but I have a license already and only use these 5 key mappings.

I've set it up the following way: https://img.notmyhostna.me/8tck91QCL7DB9N8l3d3q

I tried both. BetterTouchTool does support the no-animation left/right space actions, but on my machine InstantSpaceSwitcher felt a bit snappier for actually moving between spaces, so I kept that for my keyboard shortcuts for previous/next space and direct jumps to a specific desktop. I still use BTT for Mission Control / spaces preview. So for me the final setup is: InstantSpaceSwitcher for fast space switching, BTT only where it still adds something.

You don’t get it

Spaces are not for fullscreen but for basically virtual desktops i3 linux style

Here is superior user experience:

1. Install moom. Its keyboard windows arrangement is second to none. Its two-step tiling is a killer. Ie caps-a to show a popup with all the shortcuts, then “a” letter for vertical 1/3 of the screen. Or s for middle 2/3. Or q for top left third — you can assign any letter for any portion of the screen.

2. Use option1-6 to switch between desktops

3. For example alt-4 is a desktop where you have all on one screen (suppose you have 6k xdr like i do): safari, mail, messages, telegram, hey email, reeder

alt-3 is your productivity desktop where you have things, calendar, basecamp, notes, ia writer

alt-1 and 2 is for your main work like rider ide or what have you

Alt-5 for your remote stuff like remote desktop, servers, what have you

—

So with this you have a mental model of where everything is always and instant switching to it. Want to see your todos and notes? Alt-3. Want to see your browser and messaging? Alt-4. You get it.

Moom is better than tiling manager for screens like 6k 32” xdr.

Otherwise tiling managers are perfectly fine. For instance on windows I use komorebi

You don't need to full screen anything to use macOS spaces for O(1) app-switching, instead of O(N) by pressing Cmd+Tab repeatedly to linearly scan your list of applications.

The rule is simple: one app per space, and Ctrl+{1,2,3…} switches to the corresponding space in O(1). For me space 1 is an IDE + terminal, 2 browser, 3 messaging, 4 bug tracker, 5–6 AI agents etc. It was fast to learn: get a DM, press ^3; to file a bug, press ^4 etc. I use this with the Rectangle app for window tiling, and this combination works great for me; I rarely ever use Cmd+Tab.

I also have a personal menubar app that's very similar to SpaceName, to quickly get the current ID when multiple spaces have a similar layout (e.g. terminal takes the left half, a browser the right half).

Similar I just use RayCast Hotkeys to bring mostly full-sized apps of my choice to the forefront and not worry about much. I'm also just optimizing around a small single screen setup these days for focusing on stuff.

option-cmd-o BOOM, outlook opt-cmd-g Bang, Ghostty opt-cmd-v POW, VSCode opt-cmd-s Boff, Slack etc etc...

ALSO: I learned this from some prior thread on something similar.

Yeah well, I'd like to see your face when you find out that each time you fire shortcat it makes one HTTP request, yikes.

Actually, that was just recently merged into InstantSpaceSwitcher!

Turn off "Animation Effects" in Settings and it will be instantaneous.

Yes, and the app they're recommending emulates that swipe, but really really fast, so it looks instant. And you don't have to swipe 8 times to go from #1 to #9.

Now do it 100x every day and see if it gets old :)

> I'm still impressed when switching between programs isn't stuttery

It is stuttery when you use the magic touchpad via Bluetooth, same applies to the cursor. It's very noticeable with slow movements.

It get annoying after a while, especially if you're swiping a lot, such as having an IDE and test app / Simulator in one space and a browser in another.

Why not use a macOS i3-like window manager like yabai or komorebi (paid)?

> for the simple reason that opening new instances of apps is inconsistent and often doesn't behave how you'd expect it to once one more than one space is involved

System Settings > Desktop & Dock "Automatically rearrange Spaces based on most recent use". This is the critical part.

And then right click App on the Dock, Assign to this Dock.

With these two things, Spaces becomes predictable and repeatable.

They use a clean work Mac for just work.

It’s like having a dedicated space for a few apps and folders. No wonder they don’t care

You can get instant switching in Windows 11 natively. I forget the exact setting but mine is instant. ctrl+super+right is just a few milliseconds.

I still miss the grid spaces that got removed in Lion.

They just released a binary so no more source compilation is needed

https://github.com/jurplel/InstantSpaceSwitcher/releases/lat...

Agreed, that’s one of the things I miss most when using a Windows machine at work. Something about the animation makes my workspace feel bigger in a way that the Windows multiple desktop feature is just missing.

Technically Windows does have an animation when switching desktops with the trackpad, but it’s so jittery that it’s annoying. And the desktop image takes seconds to update, and only updates after completing the animation. To me this is one of those “death by 1000 missing bits of attention to detail” problems that plagues Microsoft/Windows.

Same but it’s certainly too slow.

I'm in the same boat. The thing is that I like the first half of the animation when it matches the speed to the keyboard gesture. The second half of the animation after you let go, the speed suddenly slows. It feels like an attempt to skeumorphically adapt those drawers you can't slam, that have an air cushion that blunts the momentum and have magnets to draw it the last few millimeters shut.

If I could just "slam" back and forth with the three finger gesture I would be happy. Nothing is going to break from slamming my workspace side to side, I don't need to be protected. Those last milliseconds of the animation, when keypresses still don't point to the target space, are really annoying. I would like to just remove the "air cushion"/modify the bezier defining it. I get how it's supposed to feel 'high end' but it's nonsensical in context and just gets in my way, even if it's in a tiny way.

Check out https://github.com/joshuarli/iss !

No it does not require disbaling SIP and it is inspired by i3 though I have never used i3 and it has customizable keybindings , you can also use karabiner to bind keys for it.

I use it without sip disabled + kanata. I think aerospace has an i3 preset config

I can organize related windows by task, so if I have two things going on which both involve say a Finder window, a Safari window, and some other assorted things, I can switch between tasks as a group with one gesture instead of cmd-tab which will pull up both Safari windows or both Finder windows, and then maybe needing to cmd=` to switch to the correct one.

When I'm in the appropriate space with only those related windows, the exposé gestures are also much more usable than when everything is jumbled together.

Because it makes you have to think before moving. If I am on Chrome and want to go to my code editor, I have to press CMD+Tab, see what position the code editor is in and press CMD+Tab x times to go there.

If I uses spaces, I know exactly where my editor is, where my browser is, it is one key press away and it is always there. I use aerospace and I divide my spaces using Alt+ the qwerty keys. Q=chrome W=code editor E&R=programs open for what I am working aka Postman or Obsidian and T=MS Teams.

My dock on MacOS is always hidden because I don't need it and now I have more screen realestate.

For me, I use spaces constantly to help me organise/compartmentalise what I’m doing. It lets you group related windows, where command tab only brings you one window at a time.

One example would be if I’m working on a document that draws on others I have written. Put all three in a space and that piece of work is nicely organised.

When I have all my windows in one space I find it messy and stressful and it’s harder to find what I want.

Overall spaces are more compatible with the way I think than command tab.

I personally don't, even when I'm doing heavy multitasking on a 13" laptop. Only exception is if something needs to be full-screen.

It can make sense if you're keeping a lot of non-full-size windows on a larger screen and working on separate tasks that are in the same application, meaning cmd-tab won't help.

I'm a little afraid of the failure modes, frankly. Clever, but that seems like it would b likely to exercise some under-tested timing situations. I'm not familiar with that API, so take the hunch with a grain of salt.

It's also hilarious that it works this way

I'm surprised others didn't pick it up sooner https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36938663

I do both, Alt-Tab works well for spaces as well since it can discriminate which window is in which space.

Rectangle with Alt-Tab (both open source), the latter is especially useful as I hate macOS' application- rather than window-level switching, Alt-Tab returns it to Windows-like behavior.

I'm a bit reluctant to draw attention to my solution since it was written to scratch my own itch and I have only had a handful of users other than myself. Last year I was seriously thinking about making linux my dev choice because coming back to a machine that had slept left me with several minutes of reorganizing the windows that had jumped to various spaces as the multiple monitors were recognized. Aerospace could put them consistently somewhere but it couldn't distinguish windows of same app. I built WinPin for that use case but then kept going to solve other things that have made using a Mac with multiple screens and dozens of windows that need to be organized around my workflows easier. I built in support for workspaces but really haven't used that myself since spaces were more of a necessary evil to organize windows rather than useful in themselves. Interestingly to make WinPin truly useful you have to turn off spaces because I can't figure out a way using what Apple gives me to determine which space a window is in.

If anyone would like to try the app out (https://winpin.app) I'm pretty confident that downloads and update flow are working and it has been running without issue for me on multiple macs for the last 4 months. There are a lot of edge cases I'm sure I haven't seen yet, but it has truly changed my workflow and I'm interested to see what others think. Please don't try to purchase a key, it is fully functional without one. I'm still working on that with Polar.sh and want to make sure my t's are crossed and i's are dotted. Gotta be one of the weirder posts to HN since I actively do not want to sell you something right now.

I use https://rectangleapp.com/ and enjoy it. I have shortcuts to move windows to the left/right half of the screen, and cycle between monitors. This, combined with native cmd+tab and cmd+` is enough for me.

This doesn't answer your question, but Aerospace (tiling WM) has been good for me to not use spaces. I don't mind spaces in theory, but the slow animation, for whatever reason, just really irks me.

Contexts app is perfect for win-like alt-tabbing https://contexts.co/

My Cmd-TAB frustration is I'm usually moving the mouse while I press it, causing the mouse to select some unwanted app. It doesn't help that the row of apps forms a solid bar across the center of my display.

Wish I could ignore mouse movement when the app switcher is displayed.

Aerospace with opt+key to go to that space, cmd+opt+key to send a window to that space, then just make a mental map of where everything is. I use mnemonics like always putting discord on workspace "D" so it becomes quite fast

What do people use for Windows-like window management on macos? I tried a bunch of them and I'm not a fan of any of them.

I actively dislike the notion of spaces.

What do people assume Spaces is a Windows thing? It was on Unix systems decades ago.

I use the r+cmd app for deterministic app switching.

Caps mapped to right command.

Karabiner to map dual-cmd+jkl; to mapped vertical slice so j is left quarter, j+k is left side, etc.

dual-cmd+i moves windows between screens and dual-cmd+u rotates current window through full, top half, bottom half.

The whole thing is deterministic and super fast and gives me more permutations than I'll ever need.

Every [*] macOS user uses Rectangle.app — https://rectangleapp.com

The ones who don't use it is because they don’t know it exists.

Or they are still using the (deprecated) Spectacle.app — https://github.com/eczarny/spectacle

[*] if you wonder why I say “every user” even though it’s obviously not true is because everyone loves hyperbole in this website.

Worth it! Easily one of the first things I install on a new mac. I have three finger swipe left/right to switch between tabs, three finger swipe down to close tabs (chrome, vs code, xcode, finder, anything that has tabs), and four finger swipe to go between spaces without animation.

And it's for me an absolutely indispensable app which I'd happily pay more for. The UI is a bit weird, but it's fantastic how many little tweaks it enables. A Mac without it feels clunky to me.

how can I do this with it?

I've seen this sentiment often. For example, in a discussion about slow nvm load times: "Does adding 0.5s delay to opening your terminal really affect your productivity?"

I agree that these small things are not bottlenecks to my productivity. I can work just fine despite them. However there is some intangible effect they have on my mindset when I'm working. The more "snappy" my computer feels, the easier it is to enter a sort of flow state. Small bits of friction here and there add up.

Single monitor workflows — which are more ergonomic — make switching spaces a necessity. It might not impact productivity but it is annoying as hell switching around spaces a lot

Try it on an ultrawide monitor. For me it's literally nauseating to leave it turned on, as in, it actively triggers motion sickness with a monitor that width.

I had a similar stance on this until I went through macOS -> linux with i3 -> back to macOS transition. i3 window and workspace operations on a maxed-out Dell XPS were truly instantaneous, and after moving back to macOS, there is no way to unsee the slugishness of the native window operations.

I'm using Aerospace at the moment, and it gets pretty close, but still isn't as nice as i3.