Penguin 'Toxicologists' Find PFAS Chemicals in Remote Patagonia (ucdavis.edu)

128 points by giuliomagnifico 13 hours ago

amatecha an hour ago

klevertree1 6 hours ago

Two notes for cynical HN crowd:

1. Why you/penguins should care about this: PFAS suppress immune function and reduce reproductive success in birds [1]. They transfer from mothers to eggs and disrupt thyroid hormones and immune organ development in avian embryos [2]. In humans, IARC classified PFOA as a Group 1 carcinogen in 2023, which means there is the highest classification (i.e. International Agency for Research on Cancer is convinced PFAS causes cancer). A 2x increase in serum PFAS is associated with a 49% drop in vaccine antibody levels in children [3]. These are the same compounds showing up in >90% of penguin samples in remote Patagonia. They don't break down. They bioaccumulate up the food chain. And the "safer replacements" like GenX are clearly reaching the ends of the earth too. This is bad for penguins and for people.

2. This is a problem I'm taking seriously. My startup, NeutraOat (neutraoat.com) is developing a modified oat fiber that selectively binds PFAS and plasticizers in the GI tract without stripping nutrients like charcoal does. It will also remove PFAS from the blood. Early-stage, binding data is promising. Clinical trial happening in ~6-9 months. Website has our early data and a pre-order signup form.

[1] Vendl et al., "Profiling research on PFAS in wildlife," Ecol Solut Evid, 2024. https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002... [2] Halldin et al., "Developmental exposure to a mixture of PFAAs affects the thyroid hormone system and the bursa of Fabricius in the chicken," Sci Rep, 2019. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-56200-9 [3] Grandjean et al., JAMA 2012;307(4):391–397. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22274686/

michael9423 4 hours ago

That’s a great idea. Have you compared the effects of your product with non-modified soluble fibers? Afaik, soluble fibers not only from oats but also from vegetables and beans already have solid effects on toxin-binding in their natural state.

Ancalagon an hour ago

Wow a non-AI startup doing good for the world (no gambling) in 2026? Ycombinator, someone get OP some money!

Seriously though, amazing idea I love this.

mbonnet an hour ago

How are GLPs bad for the world?

apt-apt-apt-apt 32 minutes ago

Ancalagon 44 minutes ago

ribosometronome an hour ago

>no GLP's

GLPs are similar to gambling?

fao_ an hour ago

NotGMan 5 hours ago

Interesting, best of luck with this, microplastics really are the modern lead.

You said it removes them from the blood: does the body dump microplastics in the gut for your product to remove them from the blood or how does it work (if you can answer due to proprietary reasons)?

Are saunas and blood donations not also effective for this?

klevertree1 4 hours ago

PFAS (and, to a lesser extent, plasticizers) circulate from the blood to the gut ~5 times per day through enterohepatic circulation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterohepatic_circulation). This is why cholestyramine was shown to be effective at reducing serum PFAS by up to 60% in a Swedish trial.

Blood donations are also somewhat effective, saunas less so. Also, to be clear, PFAS are very different from microplastics. PFAS are the Teflon chemical.

amluto 4 hours ago

jcims 4 hours ago

ben-schaaf 5 hours ago

It's a common misconception, but microplastics and forever-chemicals (PFAS) are not the same thing. They're two similar, but distinct pollutants.

> Are saunas and blood donations not also effective for this?

Yes, plasma & blood donations are good at reducing PFAS blood concentration. Some(?) firefighting foam contains PFAS, so they tend to have high blood concentrations. Donations have shown to significantly reduce that: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8994130/

bawolff an hour ago

klevertree1 4 hours ago

rustyhancock 3 hours ago

Saunas helping with any kind of detox is complete hocum.

Blood donations clearly do.

Microplastics and PFAS aren't synonyms however.

What isn't established is a dose dependant harm from PFAS. Some things are harmful in minute quantities to the point it doesn't matter if you have a lot or a little.

Lead has a clear dose response but a relatively low threshold for noticeable harm. It's not clear what PFAS curve will look like.

I won't restart the linear no threshold flame wars about radiation harm but let's just say it's not always intuitive.

zonkerdonker an hour ago

everdrive 4 hours ago

In PFAS's defense, we really needed to poison the whole planet. Otherwise people would have occasionally needed to get wet in the rain, or perhaps scrub their pots and pans. Really, these extremely minor conveniences are worth the devastating cost to ours and future generations.

genewitch 3 hours ago

gryzzly 4 hours ago

ecshafer 2 hours ago

My hypothesis is that PFAS and microplastics are responsible for the drop in female fertility, drop in male fertility, drop in testosterone levels, increase in obesity, etc. These chemicals are pervasive in the environment, causing disruptions to the endocrine system that regulates our body. This is why higher elevation areas seem to lag the trends, as they are not getting as much down stream accumulation in the environment. My sister hypothesis GLP-1s are a chemical that is undoing some of that disruption. If what you are doing works, it'll imo be a modern day Norman Borlaug.

giuliomagnifico 13 hours ago

They fitted some penguins with chemical-sensing silicone passive samplers.

greenavocado 6 hours ago

Did they wear gloves when installing the samplers?

burnte 5 hours ago

I don't tryst penguin toxicologists, I've never heard of any reputable penguin colleges or labs.

falcor84 4 hours ago

That's speceist. The whole idea with good science is that you don't need to trust the person. You can evaluate the penguins' study's results and reasoning on its own merits.

lo_zamoyski an hour ago

That's an abstract ideal. In practice, it is not feasible for most people to verify a study. It is difficult enough for colleagues in the field. Hence why we have to use proxies like trustworthiness of a source.

azinman2 4 hours ago

It’s a joke

eblair 6 hours ago

amelius 3 hours ago

Outdoor gear also contains pfas.

alex43578 10 hours ago

Is this going to be like the micro-plastics-are-actually-contamination-from-lab-gloves news all over again?

I'm all for removing PFAS and similar chemicals from the many places and uses they aren't needed, but if people don't care about PFAS in their tap water, they certainly aren't going to care about penguin PFAS.

hvb2 10 hours ago

> if people don't care about PFAS in their tap water

People don't? Sounds to me like they need to look at history a bit more.

To me, this looks very much like some of the other magical materials...

Lead in gasoline, asbestos as building material, tobacco etc

alex43578 8 hours ago

Most people don't care. PFAS is only voluntarily being phased out in food packaging, rather than being banned. People cook with teflon-coated pans for the tiny convenience over a nitrided, ceramic, or seasoned cast iron pan. Outdoors enthusiasts want PFAS rain jackets and PFAS ski waxes, rather than the alternatives.

I definitely agree they need to look at history, consider what they're being exposed to, and understand how simple and easy some of the substitutions/mitigations could be. There's 0 reason why manufacturers are getting 5+ years to phase out a forever chemical in something like ski wax or dental floss.

normie3000 5 hours ago

timr 5 hours ago

andai 5 hours ago

adriand 8 hours ago

Zigurd 7 hours ago

Future archaeologists are going to chronicle humankind's stupidity by the lead layer, the atom bomb testing fallout layer, the PFAS layer, etc. All of these were made possible by a misplaced sense of scale. Yes we can poison the whole planet. That little blue dot.

awkward 5 hours ago

giuliomagnifico 10 hours ago

Yes, it could be (I posted the article about the gloves), but PFAS are different from microplastics, and not all the studies are contaminated by gloves.

The interesting part here is using the animals as “scientists” to collect samples in their habitats for years (2022-2024) instead of sending humans to collect samples. This is far more reliable in my opinion

alex43578 8 hours ago

The animal angle is fun and interesting, and my quip about the gloves is mostly a joke. My frustration comes from the fact that we don't (or shouldn't) need to know that PFAS is in Patagonia to care about it.

45% of US households contain PFAS, apparently, but no mitigation or even manufacturing bans are required for years.

In the US, one side cries about regular flouride in the water, but is meh to PFAS. Meanwhile, the other side is supposedly pro-environment, but can't even get the fortitude to ban PFAS ski wax.

littlexsparkee an hour ago

progbits 9 hours ago

No, they-are-not-actually-contamination. Some studies might have inaccurate numbers due to contamination. That's all.

Important to correct for, but doesn't invalidate the whole microplastics concern.

MisterTea 7 hours ago

Just like how people never cared about lead in their tap water.

mistrial9 5 hours ago

you missed the full jab -- "most people" did not care about lead pipes for drinking water. It does not take much effort to blankly state that the public "does not care" and proceed to spend less than one minute of thinking capacity to self-confirm and move on. IMHO That is what you see in some of the comments here -- "ignorance" in true form, on display here in a erudite and modern forum. Functional definition of "ignorance" for this topic? I do not know that and I do not care, end of discussion.

tempaccount5050 30 minutes ago

lo_zamoyski 38 minutes ago