Hindenburg’s Smoking Room (airships.net)

166 points by crescit_eundo 3 days ago

gwbas1c 9 hours ago

One interesting lesson from airships is about disruption and how people take old assumptions into new paradigms.

Today we're used to being on plans for short periods of time. We get on, sit down, wait, and then arrive at our destination. Airships came about when long distance travel meant you were spending multiple days in a vehicle, either a train or boat.

An airship was a place that was set up for you to spend a few days on it, so it was set up more like a boat, with a place to stay, lounge, and eat; than a plane where you don't stay on it for an extended time.

We sometimes see this in new technologies where someone holds onto assumptions of the past.

canpan 5 hours ago

These places still exist, but you need to look for them. Here in Japan, some remote islands, you can travel overnight boat. I love those. There might be a speed boat or plane, but I love boarding the boat in the evening, everyone feels like having a party, sleeping in a bed and arriving fresh in the morning. (If you are in Tokyo, the nearest is Oshima Island).

There is also slow rail travel, with pretty trains, sleeper car and restaurant. I think Europe has sleeper trains too. I am also interested to go to Europe once by the trans Siberian railway.

loloquwowndueo 4 hours ago

You’d love Canada and the US. Nothing but slow travel on trains.

Brian_K_White an hour ago

hparadiz 2 hours ago

Flying a turboprop from Yakushima to Kagoshima on my way back to Tokyo was a highlight of my trip. Especially the domestic airport lounge with shoe-less tatami mat areas to hang out.

TacticalCoder 4 hours ago

> I think Europe has sleeper trains too.

Europe has sleeping boats too: you can go from, say, south east of France to the Baelaric island (like Ibiza) in 12 hours overnight.

tialaramex 2 hours ago

IncreasePosts 2 hours ago

tokai 3 hours ago

gwbas1c 2 hours ago

I think you miss the point. Think of the movie Titanic, where people were on the boat for a very long time, as opposed to merely an overnight trip.

canpan an hour ago

u1hcw9nx 6 hours ago

The eastward trips took 53 to 78 hours, it resembled more boat or train trip than flight.

c7b 5 hours ago

I felt a bit similar about electric cars with a trunk in the front where the engine would sit in an ICE car. But that's more about esthetic expectations, like the first cars looked similar to horse carriages.

elzbardico 2 hours ago

But here the space also have the role of serving as a crumple zone in case of frontal collisions

CarVac an hour ago

cf100clunk 3 hours ago

VW Beetle?

gwbas1c 2 hours ago

I've lost count of the number of people who I've had to explain that, on long trips, you don't "stop to charge." You charge where you stop to poop.

devilbunny 2 hours ago

Waterluvian 12 hours ago

It’s really amazing just what extent people went to in order to smoke. Apparently people smoked on submarines for a while. And planes. And everywhere else. Smoking is just such a disease and it feels like only now are we kind of getting a handle on it.

-warren 10 hours ago

Story time. Last summer I flew from ATL to SFO on a brand new Airbus. Pretty cool plane! Halfway across the count I had the obligatory restroom break. In the head, I noticed an ashtray. I was confused -- "smoking has been banned in planes doe decades. Why is there an ashtray here?"

I flagged down a flight attendant and asked them. Their answer was that yes smoking is banned, and it's a $250 fine. But EVERY SINGLE TRIP from ATL to SFO, someone decided it is worth it and the ash trays give them a safe place to put it out. The flight attendants wait outside the lav after the smoke alarm goes off with the ticket.

Sebguer 9 hours ago

It's actually mandated by the FAA that an ashtray be present in the restrooms:

> (g) Regardless of whether smoking is allowed in any other part of the airplane, lavatories must have self-contained, removable ashtrays located conspicuously on or near the entry side of each lavatory door, except that one ashtray may serve more than one lavatory door if the ashtray can be seen readily from the cabin side of each lavatory served.

And the plane literally cannot fly with an inoperable or missing ashtray.

Liftyee 5 hours ago

It's counterintuitive, but I've heard an explanation that the alternative - they decide to dispose their cigarette into the bin full of flammable paper waste - is much worse.

Espressosaurus 9 hours ago

If you're wealthy enough $250 is just the price of smoking (especially for someone that can afford a 1st class seat). I wonder why they don't have escalating non-monetary punishments?

flopsamjetsam 8 hours ago

paulpauper 8 hours ago

gofreddygo 9 hours ago

> ash trays give them a safe place to put it out

ha. i always thought they were remnants from old airplane plans that were too much effort to update to remove them. thanks for that

elteto 3 hours ago

The ashtrays are there, even today, because it is suspected that this flight [0] went down when someone disposed a cigarette butt in the lavatory trash, causing a fire.

A reminder that aviation regulations are written in blood.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varig_Flight_820

WalterBright 2 hours ago

fsckboy 22 minutes ago

paulryanrogers 7 hours ago

Amazing that lighters are allowed in the cabin

Someone 10 hours ago

> Apparently people smoked on submarines for a while.

More than ‘a while’. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4344412/:

“In the mid 1970s smoking was allowed virtually everywhere; by 2000 there were only two allowable smoking areas-each approximately 6 feet by 6 feet-one in the engine room and one up forward.

[…]

In 2009, a working group was established to prepare for a December 31, 2010 deadline for prohibiting smoking below decks on deployed submarines”

That paper also says:

“In 1993, based on reports of the dangers of secondhand smoke, Captain Stanley W. Bryant, the commanding officer of the USS Theodore Roosevelt, announced a ban on smoking aboard the ship starting in July 1993 and proposed eliminating tobacco from the ship's store. These actions elicited a strong and swift tobacco industry response. As described by Offen et al., tobacco friendly members of Congress challenged the policies and enough pressure was generated to force the reversal of both the ban on smoking and the prohibition of cigarette sales aboard the ship”

mpyne 7 hours ago

My time in submarines at sea just coincided with the last few years where smoking on submarines was still authorized.

It was awful, just awful. Especially in a space as cramped as a submarine and with a common ventilation system, you can't just put the smokers in a convenient spot all to themselves, they're always going to be near something the rest of the crew needs to access.

graceful6800 12 hours ago

Several years ago I had a brief stop at some airport-- maybe Atlanta? But they had an indoor smoking area. I smoked at the time so I followed the map, and you could see the smoking area from the balcony on the floor above.

It was a glass cube maybe 10 feet across, and it was crammed full of people. Completely full, like those Japanese trains. And there was a crowd of people outside waiting to get in.

I went outside. It was pretty nice, there was no one around.

qingcharles 9 hours ago

Cinemas were the annoying ones for me, even more so than airplanes. I remember going to see E.T. when it came out and the cloud of smoke from all the parents puffing away made it hard to see the damned screen.

WalterBright 2 hours ago

I don't know if sailors can smoke on an aircraft carrier, but with all that gas and bombs around, it seems like a no-brainer to ban it.

As a former Air Force brat, I remember the horrific stench of stale smoke in the AF office buildings. My parents were about the only adults I knew who didn't smoke. I bought my 72 Dodge in the 1980's, and it still smells like cigarettes.

Stratoscope 12 hours ago

Of course there were smoking and non-smoking sections on airplanes. The same air recirculated through the entire airplane, and the non-smoking section began the very next row after the smoking section.

RobotToaster 6 hours ago

Fun fact, the air quality on aeroplanes got worse after they banned smoking, because they could cut costs by re-circulating the same air for longer.

kortilla 10 hours ago

Air isn’t recirculated on an airplane. It’s continually brought in from outside the aircraft

helloplanets 10 hours ago

hnlmorg 11 hours ago

Unfortunately we aren’t getting a handle on it because those friendly tobacco companies instead just pushed people to vaping instead.

b65e8bee43c2ed0 7 hours ago

on the contrary, I strongly believe that tobacco companies are the driving force behind the attempts to equate vaping and smoking. idk about the current year, but tobacco companies had little to no influence over the vaping market during its early years. the hardware was 5% American from small companies and 95% Chinese, the nicotine fluid had local producers everywhere because of how cheap and easy it is to make. almost all early adopters were people who wanted to quit smoking, and a lot of them succeeded.

and it's not harmless, sure, but it's definitely less harmful than inhaling combustion products of pulverized tobacco waste glued together with a mix of a hundred mystery chemicals.

cogogo 4 hours ago

nextaccountic 6 hours ago

kortilla 10 hours ago

That’s still getting a handle on it. Vaping is not good but it’s significantly better than the tar that comes from burning cigarettes

dangus 7 hours ago

sublinear 10 hours ago

There are now vaping bans that have pushed people to pouches.

The pouches are a totally different level of nicotine addiction. People will fall asleep with one in.

c22 8 hours ago

slopinthebag 4 hours ago

nickjj 9 hours ago

It's also very dependent on where you live I think.

I'm in NY (not NYC) and it's rare to find anyone smoking.

When I visited Türkiye last year, I've never seen so much smoking in my life. Not just walking around the streets, but people smoking at restaurants that had seats outside. This could be a small place with 3-4 tables all within a couple of meters of each other.

ReptileMan 6 hours ago

Check the ancient shows Sex and the City and The nanny ... and you will see a different NY.

steveBK123 3 hours ago

roysting 8 hours ago

It was one of my first thoughts too, but related to that somewhat is that it also amazes me how people used to be a lot more “daring” or “pragmatic” (the quotes indicating that I’m not quite sure what to call it) in a way that did not scare them to consider and weigh the risks and conclude that it was not only feasible and possible, but that it was also worth adding a smoking room to a hydrogen filled balloon.

There are many other similar examples of this “daring” that seems to have all but been neutered by globalist standardization that has all but destroyed actual diversity in the West and has seemingly lowered tolerances of and for risk.

I’m not sure if it’s quite the same and maybe it’s just a function of the technology levels of roughly up to the 1990s, but it feels like China in general has something similar to that same kind of “daring” today, based on the unique and innovative things I see in China.

Liftyee 5 hours ago

I also suspect the modern digital news cycle and potential lawsuits have impacted the levels of risk acceptable. In China, with devastation in living memory, the population are generally willing to take more risks, and there's less of a culture of litigation. Plus, there's always the government who can dampen any viral social media outburst.

Of course, some standards (fire safety) are important. Looser standards are allowable where the customer can make a reasoned judgement of risk.

WalterBright 2 hours ago

> adding a smoking room to a hydrogen filled balloon

Is it really all that different from an airplane filled with aviation gas? There are plenty of terrible crashes from planes that caught fire in the air, and just about every crash into the ground results in a terrific fire.

allenrb 12 hours ago

I’ve been told by someone who was in the service that when smoking was no longer allowed on submarines, it made a huge difference in the cleanliness of machinery and thus how much work was required to maintain it.

Yeah, I’d love some of that goodness in my lungs, please.

TacticalCoder 4 hours ago

> It’s really amazing just what extent people went to in order to smoke.

My parents' generation, the boomers, weren't really aware that smoking was bad. Even if some knew, I feel like it was mostly hidden from them. Look at any movie they'd watch in the west when they were young, people would be smoking everywhere: inside offices, inside cars, public servants at the town hall, etc. Smokers everywhere.

Once the studies eventually came out showing how bad it was, addicted people kept smoking but there's been way less new smokers.

Now I see my kid's gen (so the grand-kids of the boomers): hardly anyone is smoking. It's not a thing among that generation.

As to the gen Xer who used to smoke: most of friends in that segment are now vaping.

Addicts are typically going to be addicts: be it alcohol or tobacco. We're getting a handle on it for the boomers are now dying left and right and it's been a long time smoking ain't being portrayed as being cool anymore.

WalterBright 2 hours ago

A fun smoking story.

My dad, as navigator, flew 32 missions in B-17s over Germany. Many of his buddies were chain smokers. The problem was, you could not keep a cigarette lit at 30,000 feet. The crew all wore oxygen masks, as they'd die without one.

So what the smokers would do is, take a deep breath and unhook the mask. Then blow on the cigarette while lighting it. The cigarette would burn like a torch. Then take a deep puff on the cigarette. Put the mask back on and take another deep breath, while the cigarette sputtered and threatened to go out. Take the mask off and then blow on the cigarette to get it going again (like a torch).

My dad would laugh and laugh while he relayed this desperate dance to smoke.

I've never seen this story in books/movies about B-17s. So here it is for posterity!

WalterBright 2 hours ago

> My parents' generation, the boomers, weren't really aware that smoking was bad.

As a boomer, I say "baloney".

For starters, my dad grew up in the Depression. His schoolmates called them "coffin nails". Doctors routinely prescribed "stop smoking, you fool".

In 7th grade, one of my teachers (incidentally, a Holocaust survivor), smoked constantly. He'd also spend half of class time coughing up a lung. My best friend in high school smoked constantly, and told him his doctor told him his lungs were damaged and he better quit. He kept smoking.

But the worst was when I was 8, and toured an agricultural museum at K State. There were two jars with lungs in them, one from a non-smoker, and the other a smoker. The non-smoker lungs were pink and looked healthy. The smokers - black! All black! It was horrific.

Besides, anyone who cut open a dead body knew instantly if the deceased was a smoker. No sane person would conclude the black, scarred lung was healthy.

All the boomers knew the bad effects of smoking. They just thought they were invulnerable.

DaedalusII 42 minutes ago

CapitalistCartr 12 hours ago

When I was a kid, back eons ago, smoking was everywhere. People who didn't smoke had ashtrays for guests. Telling people to not smoke was simply not a thing. When I was about 16, some family friends put a small sign on their front door requesting people not smoke inside their house. I was shocked. I liked the idea, but I'd never seen that before, never even considered it. I recall wondering how many people would be offended enough to stop visiting.

jasonwatkinspdx 7 hours ago

Yeah, I'm just barely old enough to remember flying when you could smoke on planes.

It was everywhere. The smell of stale cigarette smoke was in nearly every public space. This was in the 80s in the US, so smoking was already in decline, but the smell was still this constant background presence.

Ma8ee 11 hours ago

I remember a discussion whether it was rude to lit a cigarette at the dinner table before everyone had finished their meal or not.

hliyan 12 hours ago

I remember this. Ashtrays were practically part of the furniture (especially coffee tables), even if you didn't have a smoker at home.

pavlov 12 hours ago

Elementary school children would make ashtrays as gifts for Father's Day.

If dad didn't smoke, surely he had guests who did.

hnlmorg 11 hours ago

redwall_hp 8 hours ago

I vaguely remember living room chairs with built in ash trays (like how some have cup holders now).

And in the late 90s, being on a plane and the chairs had a metal folding door on the armrest that exposed an ash tray. Smoking on planes was already gone or going away, but the hardware lingered for quite some time.

cogogo 4 hours ago

cogogo 4 hours ago

Ha my first ceramic project in elementary school art class was an ashtray. Smoking was everywhere.

SoftTalker 12 hours ago

As was passing out cigarettes and cigars to all the guests, didn't see this so much in the USA but very common in Europe even into the late 1990s.

WalterBright 2 hours ago

So true. My parents would bring out ashtrays when we had guests.

paulpauper 8 hours ago

It makes you wonder how accurate the smoking cancer stats are. IF everyone smoked, presumably this means a lot of people who are not recorded in the stats despite smoking or former smokers, lowering the mortality rate or risk factor, although obvious smoking is still bad.

margalabargala 8 hours ago

I would expect it to be the other way around.

If nearly everyone smoked, then even nonsmokers were constantly getting a fair amount of secondhand smoke.

This would raise the background rate of cancer, making it appear that smoking raises your risk by less than it actually does.

rjsw 8 hours ago

paulpauper 7 hours ago

andrepd 4 hours ago

About 1/2 of all people who ever died from smoking-related causes were non-smokers.

keiferski 10 hours ago

I don’t know if it would help anyone else, but personally, watching the movie The Insider kind of permanently put me off from smoking. Jeffrey Wigand is/was an incredibly inspiring figure and I think of him every time I see cigarettes.

https://youtu.be/MGOb29aePyc?is=CKyo1UM-dkiRHdWa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Wigand

gwbas1c 9 hours ago

Even though may parents didn't smoke, and there was a lot of anti-smoking education around me, I grew up around a lot of smokers.

What did it for me was watching my uncle have a rather painful death in his 50s because he couldn't stop drinking and smoking. (He went into alcohol withdrawal in the hospital after lung surgery.)

That being said, I did smoke a few when I was in my early 30s. Something about nicotine just put weird thoughts in my head a few days after smoking a cigarette: One day I was biking home and the thought "it would be a good idea to have a cigarette before making dinner" popped into my head. I never touched cigarettes after that.

Cigarettes are more addictive than people who've never tried them realize. It's not just a matter of will power, something about nicotine manipulates your motivations in a very subconscious way.

WalterBright 2 hours ago

I never smoked because I knew I'd like it.

But there are a couple photos of me "smoking" as I was trying to look cool.

doginasuit 6 hours ago

This story reminds me of the game Oxygen Not Included.

> The smoking room was kept at a higher pressure than the rest of the ship so that no leaking hydrogen could enter the room

I haven't yet played any other game where air pressure in a room relative to the rooms surrounding it could mean the difference between life and death. Without really meaning to I gained an intuitive understanding of physics by just trying not to asphyxiate my dupes. Gold standard for edutainment.

CaptainBanger 4 hours ago

You might enjoy Hardspace: Shipbreaker.

I assure you pressure differentials will be life or death!

c22 an hour ago

Fyi, you appear to be shadowbanned and it's not clear why. You might consider sending an email to admin to work that out?

Barbing 7 hours ago

Last paragraph:

>The smoking room was perhaps the most popular room on the ship, which is not surprising at a time when so many people smoked, but its popularity was no doubt enhanced because it was also the location of the [Hindenburg’s bar](link).

That’s how you keep a reader on the site!

stmw 11 hours ago

Truly a better time - today we worry about using Rust 'unsafe' too often. They had a smoking room on a hydrogen airship!

/j

BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 8 hours ago

Back in the 50's tonsillectomies were a regular rite of passage for kids, especially in colder places where kids spent more time indoors exposed to smoke. A couple years after moving from Maiibu to Toronto, I had the surgery.

ziofill 5 hours ago

For those who are interested: a very recent Stuff You Should Know podcast episode was about the Hindenburg disaster: https://stuffyoushouldknow.com/episode/the-hindenburg-disast...

paulorlando 11 hours ago

I remember years ago movie theaters in Hong Kong allowed smoking. If I remember right, it wasn't in the back, like on planes, but the seats to the one side of the center aisle.

u1hcw9nx 6 hours ago

Hindenburg was originally designed to use helium, but The US banned the export of helium. Helium was rare and expensive to manufacture and only the US made it in sufficient quantities.

quijoteuniv 11 hours ago

I will use this as a metaphor of humanity!

lanstin 13 hours ago

That sweet sweet nicotine.

mschuster91 13 hours ago

> The real danger of allowing smoking on a hydrogen airship — and the reason it was strictly confined to the closely monitored smoking room — was the risk of a fire;

I'd say... contrary, allowing smoking in a dedicated controlled place was the safer option. The real danger was not allowing smoking because if you ban smoking, people will smoke no matter if it's banned - and back then, there were a looooot more smokers, so a loooooot more opportunities for someone to behave utterly braindead.

That's also why every modern airplane to this day has ashtrays in the lavatory. There WILL be someone smoking at some point, and better provide them with a safe option to discard the butt than risk having the person throw the butt in the trash bin where it can set the waste ablaze.

47282847 12 hours ago

Ah. I always thought it was because of flexibility and timespan of airplane use, but it sounds like you are right! Thanks. TIL.

https://simpleflying.com/why-airplnes-ashtrays-lavatories

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2026/04/28/airplane-as...

buildbot 10 hours ago

There’s a video on the first link of a landing in Belgrade that’s deeply funny. “We departed late and arrived early, A Boeing 737 would never be able to do that”

“Why are you reading out numbers to me like I am an old man”

willio58 11 hours ago

> The real danger was not allowing smoking because if you ban smoking, people will smoke no matter if it's banned.

This same concept is why full prohibition never works. People who want to do something will find a way and it often comes at the cost of being more harmful to society than if they were allowed to do it in a controlled environment.

embedding-shape 10 hours ago

That's always what I've said too, so I'm now proposing to put all the "want to be murderers" together with folks who want suicide assistance. Make one move, get two results or whatever they say.

bloomingeek 12 hours ago

Your reply is reasonable. I've always thought the biggest problem to almost anything is human. We sometimes make the most thoughtless decisions and justify them with the flimsiest of excuses. We marvel at the stubbornness of two year-olds, then ignore ourselves.

embedding-shape 10 hours ago

> I've always thought the biggest problem to almost anything is human.

Makes sense, "problem" is a human invention and without humans on the planet, there wouldn't really be any problems anymore.

jodrellblank 7 hours ago

> "The real danger of allowing smoking on a hydrogen airship - was the risk of a fire"

Maybe. They had diesel engines, 240 Volt and 24 Volt electric generators, 200 Watt battery powered radio transmitter, backup radio transmitter, a 5.7 million candle power searchlight, an electric oven and hob galley. It's not like there were no risk of heat or combustion anywhere else on the airship.

SoftTalker 12 hours ago

The real danger was using hydrogen to float the airship.

jodrellblank 6 hours ago

No, the passengers were in a gondola off the bottom of the airship, the lift gas was concentrated at the top of the airship, some 100 feet above, above an asbestos ceiling. The real dangers were:

- being early in the days of flying. One airship disaster (the British R101) was the airship being extended, not tested carefully, and rushed into service for a political deadline. Another had the vents sealed shut so it hit its altitude ceiling. The Graf Zeppelin was one of the safest aircraft ever flown - a million miles without accident in the 1930s when aeroplanes were crashing a lot. Even the Hindenburg disaster killed 35 people, most of its passengers and crew survived.

- Using cow intestines stitched together by hand to make the Hydrogen lift cells. The stitching leaves holes which could let air mix with the lift gas.

- Many airship accidents were related to mooring, and having humans grab onto mooring lines and having humans try to pull a 7 million cubic foot balloon against the wind and that going wrong.

If we can now do high pressure Hydrogen powered cars, tanks of it in gas stations in urban areas and Hydrogen powered aircraft, and people think that can be safe, we ought to be able to achieve room temperature and pressure airship lift gas with it more safely than they could in the 1920s.

hnbear 6 hours ago

charcircuit 6 hours ago

Make it illegal. No rational person would through their life away just to smoke.

protocolture 2 minutes ago

What if an irrational person was aboard.

rrvsh 2 hours ago

Feels like this may run into a no true scotsman but this is demonstrably false if you look at the number of marijuana smokers in countries where they impose severe penalties (up to life) on them

paulpauper 8 hours ago

if cigarettes can destroy the airship you got bigger problems.

Ekaros 7 hours ago

I believe real problem was the lighters. Not the cigarettes. And hydrogen was not that risky. Problem was more so that the envelop was too burnable.

brcmthrowaway 9 hours ago

Is there any truth of Nicotine being a nootropic?

heliosinc 6 hours ago

I'm all about non-nicotine focus pouches these days. Came acrosss a new one recently that has extended caffeine and 4-6 hrs of lock in

brcmthrowaway an hour ago

Link?

mordae 7 hours ago

It's a vasoconstrictor. Gets more blood up to the brain.