US's big bet on quantum computing may not be legal (arstechnica.com)
82 points by Bender 3 days ago
stymaar 2 hours ago
For the past year and a half, the US administration have plunged the country in a rule of law twilight zone: the rule of law still exists, and there are still independent jurisdictions to enforce it, but the administration decided they didn't care, and they just overcome any court dismissal of their orders with a new illegal order that courts will have to push back a few month later.
Which means that, in practice, the US isn't governed by the rule of law anymore, but by the whim of the Czar's court.
mostlysimilar 2 hours ago
The future of the US depends on these people being held accountable by the next administration, and structural reforms to make their abuses harder to do again in the future.
voidfunc an hour ago
This won't happen. Mostly because the next administration that is a counter to this current administration won't happen. The electoral process in the US is effectively cooked.
autoexec an hour ago
iso1631 24 minutes ago
gchamonlive 2 hours ago
Great incentive for a president to do whatever he pleases then just attempt a coup.
pessimizer 27 minutes ago
The future of the US depends on political candidates attempting to win the public over on the merits of their argument and the quality of their character instead of being conmen on billionaire payrolls or billionaires themselves.
Instead, we're ruled by these two dumb, evil political parties that radical centrists treat like elemental forces of nature. It's a play being put on for your benefit. Your vote changes nothing. The Heel W. Bush administration had presided over the most consciously evil things done in both foreign and domestic policy, with the full knowledge that it was illegal, and then Golden Boy Obama came and indemnified everyone. The person who illegally destroyed the CIA torture videotapes became the head of the CIA.
The country is a joke and quickly turning into a failed state, and upper middle-class people are being distracted by sock puppets because as the top 20%, they aren't suffering in the least.
edit: advocating for the prosecution of the last administration by the next is simply advocacy for dictatorship. There is no reason for anyone to leave the presidency if civic intellectual thought has degenerated so much that they think that this is a wise or democratic thing to do. If you vote in a criminal, there's no clawback after you get robbed. The reason this is a failed state is because we're exclusively putting criminals on the ballot, from President to dog catcher. Turns out that non-criminals can't raise millions of dollars to get a job.
freediddy 13 minutes ago
mrits 2 hours ago
Being held accountable in the next administration is pretty much the opposite of what a democratic society needs. It's a never ending cycle. Let the court system handle this.
monooso 2 hours ago
adgjlsfhk1 2 hours ago
RHSeeger an hour ago
b112 2 hours ago
ryanmcbride 2 hours ago
Yup. There is no authority that is going to swoop in and hold them accountable, there is no legal recourse to be had from any court currently in existence. No one is going to save us but ourselves.
gchamonlive 2 hours ago
Bernie Sanders warned right when the second Trump admin started that the country was effectively an olygarchy https://youtu.be/79KDKWEOJ1s. I wrote https://xd1.dev/2025/09/not-buying-american-anymore that made frontpage here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45277346 discussing the consequences of an irresponsible admin through the lenses of consumer rights. It's nice that now we are seeing more widespread acceptance of the fact that US isn't behaving like a democracy anymore, even though it's a bit too little too late
msandford 40 minutes ago
Are you new to the club? I saw these problems you're talking about with Biden, Trump1, Obama and Bush Jr. Of course I'm not old enough to really know about what Clinton or Bush Sr or Reagan or anyone before that did.
I know it's super annoying to have someone rain on your "but THIS stuff is REALLY bad!" parade, but that the rulers are corrupt isn't new. It's just new to a lot of people.
wookmaster 24 minutes ago
pessimizer 35 minutes ago
2001. Pretending that all of this was started by the game show host wrestling valet is dumb, and the kind of thing that got us into this situation. Every evil thing that Trump is doing is something that Democrats support. Every evil thing that W. Bush was doing was something that Democrats supported.
The Democrats haven't even run a real primary since 2008, and H. Clinton makes a good case that that one wasn't even real; Democratic elites had got together and decided that a black face would be perfect to make sure that no one was punished for the financial fraud and worldwide torture program that had just occurred - Clinton was simply too personally repellent to get away with pardoning, even rewarding, evil.
What happened after 2001 is that the country was turned over to the executive and the judiciary, and congress just decided it was going to act as a passive conduit of billionaire wishes. Both parties deciding that votes needed 60% to pass made the job something you could nap through. It's no coincidence that they're so old they're barely sentient now. Clever Hans could do the job.
The only people dumber than extreme Republican partisans in this country are extreme Democratic partisans. They are all treating this as sports while people are dying, because they're doing better than they ever have. Democrats shoved an ancient confabulating corrupt racist into the White House as the reply to an ancient confabulating corrupt racist. The first time in history that the public asked for the last president back, it was the least popular president that had ever been elected, and Democratic partisans still stand around with their fingers in their ears blaming the celebrity.
mc32 an hour ago
The previous admin also ruled via executive order. It said it would find ways to do things even if struck down by the SCOTUS such as the school loan forgiveness, firearms controls, speech suppression via “embeds” etc.
hdndjsbbs an hour ago
The myth of the Supreme Court having any check on executive power was disproven by the "switch in time to save 9", where Owen Roberts agreed to stop obstructing The New Deal so FDR wouldn't implement court-packing and term limits. That was almost 90 years ago.
mw888 39 minutes ago
47282847 33 minutes ago
That’s like saying we shouldn’t hold a drunk driver accountable for his driving because we all had a beer sometimes.
PaulDavisThe1st 4 minutes ago
Nobody cares if an admin "rules via executive order". What we care about is whether they rule according to the law. That is, for example: the administration is free to fire whoever it wants from the civil service as long as it follows the laws about how and when this is done. This administration, however, has repeatedly fired federal employees without following the law.
In more than 85% of cases brought against the administration, lower courts have ruled that the administration has broken the law.
So, you can decide if you think SCOTUS overruling those decisions is an indication of a problem, or justice winning out.
I also don't care when an administration says "We will find a way to ...." - I care about whether they do so, and do so in accordance with the law. The Biden administration followed SCOTUS rulings on its orders, and AFAIK, did not find workarounds for any of the things you mention.
defrost an hour ago
At the same scope and scale?
Can you see a problem here, a failure of the intended system of checks and balances?
kyrra an hour ago
And Obama did this. See his famous pen and phone quote:
"We are not just going to be waiting for legislation in order to make sure that we're providing Americans the kind of help that they need. I've got a pen, and I've got a phone. And I can use that pen to sign executive orders and take executive actions and administrative actions that move the ball forward.."
PaulDavisThe1st 7 minutes ago
wingspar an hour ago
I recall this precedent was set previously under Biden (likely sooner).
Biden admin lost CDC eviction prohibitions case and immediately enacted new slightly different prohibition and Biden defended the effort as it would take time to be stopped.
“Whether that option will pass constitutional measure with this administration, I can’t tell you. I don’t know,” Biden said. “There are a few scholars who say it will, and others who say it’s not likely to. But, at a minimum, by the time it gets litigated it will probably give some additional time while we’re getting that $45 billion out to people who are in fact behind in the rent and don’t have the money.”
https://thehill.com/policy/finance/housing/566230-biden-buys...
mkw5053 30 minutes ago
The eviction moratorium is probably the strongest example available, and I don't think it's a good one for Biden. But one controversial episode doesn't establish a precedent for systematic noncompliance with court orders. If anything, it stands out precisely because it was unusual enough to generate criticism across the political spectrum.
Sources:
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/anatomy-screw-biden-evi...
upofadown 3 hours ago
>That technology overlaps only partially, at best, with what’s used in quantum processors.
Dunno, how can you say that for sure when we don't actually know how to make a practical quantum processor? The bigger issue is that we are scaling up manufacturing of approaches that have not been made to work.
I remember a meeting where the project manager pointed out that we were due to send some test boards to a customer. I pointed out that we didn't have a design yet. The PM then asked why we couldn't send them some boards anyway. I suggested that since the boards wouldn't work that we could just cut out some green cardboard and add some component shapes with a magic marker thus saving significant time and effort.
It turned out that I was not as funny as I thought I was...
pavon an hour ago
The funding isn't going towards some hypothetical future practical quantum processor, it is going towards existing approaches that we know have different technology, manufacturing processes, and most importantly different applications than the Chips Act was targeting. Funding quantum computing research might be a good thing, but it doesn't make us any less dependent on foreign silicon manufacturing for the countless uses of computer chips across existing industry, which was the purpose of the Chips Act.
ClarityJones 29 minutes ago
> ... the US government announced $2 billion in investments in ... a range of startups ... could be make-or-break investments for many companies that are likely years away from a product that could see widespread use. ...
The article doesn't make it sound like this is "going towards existing approaches". I totally get that you may not support these company's approaches to quantum processer design, but we'd be getting rather into the weeds if that's the hair we're splicing.
prerok 3 hours ago
Hahaha, hilarious. I could also tell a story or two like that.
I have to say, though, I have no idea what the management is thinking when they hire such clueless PMs. Even worse, I have seen clueless product owners who had no idea about the domain we were in. I guess a recent example could be Ive designing the Luce.
Maybe I am just envious. Maybe I just wish I could BS my way through life like these characters do.
sublinear 2 hours ago
There's nothing to envy. They're a hired punching bag to put distance between you and the management.
In most cases, even the PM doesn't know this. They were specifically selected to not think too deeply. Anything you say that is brutally correct and they take the wrong way is received as mean and arrogant. Those incidents give management some ammunition if they ever want to get rid of you.
kube-system an hour ago
The issue at hand is what the money is being spent on today.
declan_roberts 14 minutes ago
I'm learning this week that Congress has only authorized money for a CIA agent to stash $40m in gold bars in his home but not for the United States to take an equity stake in the future of computing.
aswegs8 2 hours ago
Is it legal is such a pre-2025 question
snowwrestler an hour ago
It may also be salient post-2028, is the thing.
kennywinker 4 hours ago
I don’t know enough about the state of quantum computing but this sounds like IBM dumping dead end research onto taxpayers
petcat 4 hours ago
Then why are they also investing $1 billion in the same company as the taxpayers?
armada651 an hour ago
Because the startup is going to buy $2 billion worth of services from IBM.
kennywinker 2 hours ago
I suppose it’d be in the details. Like, are they locked into that investment, or is it something with checkpoints and milestones that let them bail out after a year and a few mil? What’s the ownership structure of any new ip? Etc.
It’s easy to drop a story like this, get a win for investing in the future, and then quietly disassemble it as soon as the cameras turn away.
Or, it would be easy, if this administration didn’t consider laws beneath them.
Zigurd an hour ago
Believe the announcement when the check clears.
warkdarrior 3 hours ago
Divestment costs
downrightmike 2 hours ago
Its all made up computation to fit the problem exactly. No real progress has been made in decades.
"Similarly, quantum factorisation is performed using sleight-of-hand numbers that have been selected to make them very easy to factorise using a physics experiment and, by extension, a VIC-20, an abacus, and a dog." https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2025/07/cheating-on-q...
ks1723 an hour ago
This is just not true. There has been tremendous progress in the field. Starting with google’s experiment in 2019 on showing quantum advantage - admittedly on a useless problem, but quantum advantage nevertheless, to fault tolerant encodings by the Harvard group to recent demonstrations of a road toward advantage in generative models by goggle, to name a few. It’s still far away from running Shor’s algorithm to factor relevant numbers and break RSA and the like, but even there dramatic progress is being made, see, e.g., https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=9665
6DM 4 hours ago
> "could argue that it has been harmed by the diversion of the funds to a different field. But that argument would likely take so long to sort out in court that all the money would have been spent by then."
So if I steal from someone and spend it fast enough, I wouldn't be responsible anymore and can get away with it? That's how that sounded to me.
mrhottakes 3 hours ago
Yes, that is basically how the justice system works. If you have enough money and lawyers you can avoid practically any consequences.
dmbche 3 hours ago
Something about it being the banks problem if I owe them a billion
ben_w 3 hours ago
If I understand legal terminology correctly*, this is what a "preliminary injunction" is for.
* eh. I'm not a lawyer.
lazide 2 hours ago
The principle of ‘Standing’, however, means that you also cannot sue unless you can show actual harm to yourself.
Yes, these contradict each other somewhat.
Animats an hour ago
What can quantum computing do right now?
snowwrestler an hour ago
Access billions in federal funding, obviously. Which is something!
amelius an hour ago
They're trying to break cryptography, so indeed those practices are illegal.
Eric_Bulai 3 hours ago
This is a novel for a book. In a race where the rules are broken by some participants, how secure are your own systems when your opponent can access invisible technology long before the others? This should make you think.
lazide 2 hours ago
It’s literally classic prisoners dilemma?
Hint: it doesn’t give warm fuzzies.
s0a 2 hours ago
there is not yet a single approach to quantum computing that is provably scalable. so called experts may quibble, the uninformed (or financially aligned) will bloviate, bluster, and talking point us to death. but it's sadly just true. we're closer to useful fusion power than useful QC.
ifh-hn 3 hours ago
My first reaction, without RTFA, is: hasn't stopped them before, why would not being legal stop US big tech now?
123k2a 3 hours ago
Trump Jr. is one of the government money recipients via 1789 capital (which had already profited from the groq insider sale last year):
https://www.startribune.com/donald-trump-quantum-computing-i...
bix6 3 hours ago
Trump Jr the guy selling drones to the Middle East after his father started a war? What a standup guy!
vjvjvjvjghv 3 hours ago
The Trump family is a fully integrated business. Start a war, sell weapons. Negotiating peace deals and looking for investors at the same time.
Sue the government and be in charge of the agency you sue.
actionfromafar 3 hours ago
That's Sir Mountain Dew Trump Jr to you.
4ashga an hour ago
Downvoting and flagging facts? Here is another one:
Trump Jr just married the daughter of an Epstein banker.
LadyCailin 2 hours ago
> At this point, however, it’s not obvious how to stop the deal.
Impeachment, but congress has bent over so much that they can taste their shoes.
lazide 2 hours ago
They like the payment, and yelling about it while actually not doing anything about it means they get the benefits (as long as their constituents buy it!) while not having to do the actual hard work on take on real risk.
When it blows up, they can even say ‘I told you so!’, often while profiting from it insider trading wise.
itake 3 hours ago
disclosure: I have large (to me) investments in quantum.
---
The US needs to keep leading innovations. We have permanently lost the ability to manufacture. For China (and the world) to stay dependent on us, we need to continue pumping out technologies.
Ukraine / Iran / Afghanistan / Vietnam has proved having the biggest baddest military is not that valuable.
josefritzishere 4 hours ago
I think we're all seeing a theme.
thegrim33 4 hours ago
Is the theme that any direction US tech advances in results in a persistent campaign of negative hit pieces aimed at trying to halt/destroy any achievements? Written by "journalists"/publishers that have never, and will never, say a single negative thing about china? Sure seems like that's the theme.
orsorna 3 hours ago
What does your tangent about feelings have to do with the fact that the money is illegally allocated? That is the theme OC is pointing out.
itake 3 hours ago
bix6 3 hours ago
> But a member of the US Congress is now arguing that those deals are illegal, as Congress did not allocate the money for this purpose—instead, it was meant to support public research in semiconductors.
That is the theme. Illegal use of public money. It’s called crony capitalism.
anon291 3 hours ago
That is basically the theme. You've figured out the actual grift. The crazy thing is how these same magazines will promote actual fake industries like crypto, while demonizing industries that produce actual results like AI. The goal seems to be to get Americans to invest assets into currencies likely already controlled by foreign entities while discouraging them from developing their own potentially revolutionary technology.
bix6 3 hours ago
Hikikomori 2 hours ago
Plenty of that on Ars Technica, even by the same author. Baseless silly whataboutism as usual.
mrhottakes 3 hours ago
Take a deep breath and get your meds updated.
NietTim 2 hours ago
Can you actually make an argument instead of just vague posting?
dlev_pika 2 hours ago
waves at most executive decisions of this administration
sebmellen 4 hours ago
Quantum itself is the most scummy, grift-filled industry. Every quantum company is riding the AI/semiconductor hype wave with basically zero revenue prospects or long-term application of the tech. Companies trading at 200x earnings, IONQs CEO claiming to the “next NVIDIA”/“base case is Cisco’s market cap” — just ridiculous.
Zigurd an hour ago
Bogus research they use for image polish is to be expected from IBM. It's pure comedy the way that Watson missed the AI hype train.
But quantum seems to have infected some more legit players. Whatever became of Majorana chips, for example? That got some high-level attention at Microsoft.
dlev_pika 2 hours ago
If you have enough money, you can say whatever bullshit and the pilot fish around you will clap.
daveguy 8 minutes ago
I'm old enough to remember when conservatives thought the government picking winners and losers in industry was a bad thing. But that was before about 75% of them joined the dumpty cult.
mounceyboy 3 hours ago
my favorite conspiracy theory - the govt has already cracked all the RSA codes but they keep funding QM to show that we're still secure.
ecshafer 2 hours ago
I read once that if we really wanted to be secure, we would have a crypto library that was open source, AND all changes needed to be signed off by more than one of NSA, Mossad, FSB, China's agency, etc. This way if there is a bug they find, any agency has to assume other agencies have also found the bug.
dylan604 an hour ago
That's so good it'll happen the third day after never. Neat idea though
shevy-java 3 hours ago
A suspicious amount of betting here - from the top of the current administration, down to semi-regular people like that US soldier who profited from his special knowledge recently:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-soldier-charged-using-clas...
400.000$
So if these are all the Trump-voters then I am no longer surprised. It's an ongoing cash grab on different levels - the big guns play on top.