Pledging another $400k to the Zig software foundation (mitchellh.com)

506 points by tosh 4 hours ago

trizoza 3 hours ago

What a word of wisdom right there, the bit about internet is beautiful because it's ok to be weird - this is often the opposite on twitter, fb, reddit and many discords where if you have a different opinion you get mobbed by angry comments making one feel worse about their own weirdness.

paufernandez an hour ago

It is increasingly important to be able to see that many things are true. There is no single "truth". Many things are true at the same time, and in all aspects of life. Each brain is like a band pass filter, and the effort we should make is to try to imagine the points of view of others, which are just different slices of the same world. Then embrace the slices we like, and just ignore the ones we don't, but don't argue or fight for our slice as it if was the only one.

hallole 42 minutes ago

There is only a single source of truth and that is objective reality. Maybe you agree with that, but your wording is messy. It's true that different perspectives can yield their own particular bits of truth, if that's what you're saying.

rrgok 32 minutes ago

jasonjayr an hour ago

The problem arises when there are contradictory truths, and defenders of one or both sides refuse to dig deeper to both self-reflect on what they believe to be true, and perhaps come to a deeper more correct understanding.

galleywest200 2 hours ago

Different opinion != being weird.

Lerc 3 hours ago

It's great to be in a position to do this, however I'm beginning to think that their greater contribution is ghostty

I don't really know how to value things any more when I see someone develop a tool that is kind-of useful that then gets acquired for half a billion dollars. As someone with a decent number of decades of terminal hopping, the improvement that ghostty has brought a breath of fresh air. To me it has represented more utility that a few of those acquisitions.

wickrom 2 hours ago

I'd love to hear what made you settle on ghostty. There is not dearth of terminal emulators out there, each claiming performance or batteries included.

dust-jacket 2 hours ago

I'm not the commenter, but for me ghostty was good for being a Very Good terminal experience with almost no config required.

Just checked and the config file for my daily use terminal setup is 3 lines long. 3! That means I know I can chuck it on any system, any clean re-install, and it'll be Fine. That counts for a lot when you've grown tired of endless config tweaking.

zemnl an hour ago

noisy_boy 2 hours ago

Seconded. I keep hearing about ghostty but I have yet to see a strong enough justification about how it is _that_ better. I use konsole and has significantly more user friendly screen to manage settings. I heard about ghostty's performance so I did some timing tests and ghostty was faster than konsole but not that much - not in any perceptibly significant measurable sense.

warmwaffles 2 hours ago

beepbooptheory 2 hours ago

hack1312 2 hours ago

i switched from iTerm 2 on macOS because it would get bogged down sometimes or occasionally lag. it’s been noticeably faster and i appreciate the file-based config as well as the defaults, leading to my config being under 5 lines.

on linux i use the default terminal in gnome which is ptyxis now iirc and haven’t felt any need to switch.

johnwheeler an hour ago

I use Ghost TTY coming from iTerm for no other reason than I saw everybody else using and praising it.

Is there some special feature I'm missing? I would only call it a marginal improvement. If that. I fail to see what the big deal is.

novafunc 14 minutes ago

For me,

* available on Linux and macOS

* settings easy to transfer, just a file

* comes with Jetbrains Mono Nerd font built-in, no need to install it separately

* supports ligatures

kyrra an hour ago

input latency. the time from pressing a key to showing on-screen is much lower with ghostty (I can't find exact number, but it seems to handle input 2-4x quicker. So around 15ms instead of 60ms).

Also just the general render pipeline is way faster in ghostty. There are things you just can't do in iTerm because it's so slow. Ghostty is attempting to improve the experience to allow for more things to be built in the terminal.

fridder an hour ago

I personally like how I barely had to configure it, how nerd fonts just worked, and how nicely it renders text

mixmastamyk an hour ago

It’s not quite finished, give it time to mature. But pretty good already.

johnwheeler an hour ago

Hasz an hour ago

Mitchell Hashimoto, talk about putting your money where your mouth is. What a cool dude. Much respect!

dieseleration 2 hours ago

I think it makes perfect sense for Zig to have their stand against LLM contributions while consumers of the compiler/Zig project overall use whatever code aids they like. Building a language is not a matter of churning out as much greenfield code as possible, but in careful consideration of whether or not some feature and its implementation fits coherently into the entire overall language. It's upstream of so much, and we now have decades and decades of examples where just letting rip with new additions renders a language schizoid and unergonomic. An LLM's tendency to "yes, of course, and," to any suggestion is not what a healthy language project needs, but it can be tremendously useful for someone employing a balanced and ergonomic language to generate products. I'm glad to see Mitchell keeping a cool head as the unfortunate tendency in so many devs to take sides and get dogmatic plays out yet again.

joaohaas an hour ago

This is not the main reason for the ban. You can read the linked post in the article that explains the AI ban thing in more depth.

GodelNumbering 3 hours ago

I have been experimenting with modifying Ghostty lately. It's a well attended codebase and a pleasure to work with, props to Mitchell.

Since Ghostty is written in Zig, I ended up adding native Zig AST support in Dirac (https://github.com/dirac-run/dirac/blob/master/src/services/...)

One thing the has been a little unintuitive is the pattern of all code and tests in single files, which makes the filesizes grow much larger. Also if you're coming from inheritance supported languages, Zig forces a different way of thinking

osigurdson 3 hours ago

Zig is really nice. I enjoy using it a lot. Glad to hear that it is getting a little more funding.

teekert 3 hours ago

Adults responding in adult ways. Respect.

ksdme9 3 hours ago

It must be pretty satisfying to be able to throw that kind of money at stuff you admire.

sph 3 hours ago

You can 'throw' what you can afford and it will feel as satisfying. Just try it.

dwroberts 3 hours ago

Seems obvious the parent comment was making a point about how much money it is and not just whether it feels nice to donate money. 400k can go a long way

__turbobrew__ an hour ago

If you assume Hashimotos net worth is one billion dollars, a $400k donation is equivalent to a $400 donation if your net worth is one million dollars.

I don’t believe donating $400 really feels that satisfying, the impact is fairly negligible in most contexts whereas donating $400k can very visibly improve a lot of lives.

I think this illustrates just how much a billion dollars is and maybe why a very small wealth tax can be used for a lot of good in society.

mitchellh 13 minutes ago

jjtheblunt an hour ago

csomar an hour ago

throwitaway222 an hour ago

grim_io an hour ago

bluecalm 44 minutes ago

bionsystem an hour ago

Tade0 2 hours ago

The type of money I can throw at stuff wouldn't pay a salary of a full-time dev for 2.5 years (if not more).

yoyohello13 an hour ago

asimovDev 2 hours ago

i don't think my bank will let me withdraw 400k in cash with the reasoning of "I want to throw it"

throw1234567891 2 hours ago

fhn 2 hours ago

alchemist1e9 3 hours ago

EDIT: comment was under incorrect parent. my error. moved it to correct location.

EDIT2: Actually it’s more interesting. The commenters seem have changed their wording away from what I was criticizing.

Original observation: Try to purge envy from your heart. It’s a poison.

There was originally a lot of dark envy in this thread but interestingly it’s been revised out to be more subtle.

MyHonestOpinon 2 hours ago

sevenzero 2 hours ago

b-kf 2 hours ago

Not sure about the motivation behind the comment, but small donations help too and provide you with a good feeling. Almost anyone here can probably part with the equivalent sum of money of a mobile phone plan in their country and split it across their most valued open source projects. I've honestly come to the conclusion that if you rely on open source software you simply should.

Many of us have probably been poor at some point (e.g. as a student, young adult), but most of us spend a significant amount of time in their life having means to contribute, even if only small.

paufernandez an hour ago

The most beautiful form of power.

cyber_kinetist 3 hours ago

I really do not understand how people talk about "Being rich / being a billionaire will make you fundamentally unhappy". Damn if I had all the money I have so many good-willed projects I want to throw money at!

thomascountz 3 hours ago

Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy less unhappiness. There's diminishing returns, of course, but I'd hazard it looks a bit like ln(n), in that the returns are quite significant in the beginning.

tetha 10 minutes ago

the_mitsuhiko 3 hours ago

tsunamifury 3 hours ago

darren0 3 hours ago

It will not make you unhappy. It will just not make you happy. Big difference. The saying "money can't buy happiness" is in fact true no matter how much people want to rationalize the opposite.

Herbstluft 3 hours ago

wnevets 3 hours ago

fps-hero 2 hours ago

neuralkoi 3 hours ago

jmull 3 hours ago

Being rich doesn’t make you unhappy.

But spending your life pursuing an unsatisfiable goal (because the goal is “more”) probably isn’t good for your happiness.

Not to mention, there are very satisfying ways to contribute to things you think are important that don’t necessarily involve a lot of money.

microtonal 2 hours ago

Damn if I had all the money I have so many good-willed projects I want to throw money at!

I think this is quite defeatist thinking. A thousand people who donate $400 is also $400k and is well within the realm of most people here. A lot of non-profits also want the thousand people that donate $400, because $400 yearly from thousand people is much more robust long-term funding.

Recently a well-known Dutch journalist, who started an organization to critically follow big tag (and take them to court when necessary), raised 1.3 million Euro. Most of it is from people like you and me, who can chip in 10 Euro monthly. It's reliable, because most people just have a recurring donation set up.

Not to detract from mitchellh's pledge, because ideally you get both types of donations.

IshKebab 3 hours ago

Yeah I feel the same about people who say they wouldn't know what to do when they retire. I have so many projects! I guess we are just different...

genxy 3 hours ago

The kinds of people that become billionaires are not those who are happy, the hole in their sole is why they are billionaires in the first place. Yes there are exceptions, just like with everything.

You should probably have a billion dollars, you would do great things. But you probably shouldn't become a billionaire to get there. Being rich doesn't make one unhappy, but getting there does.

That relentless grind changes a person, much like the ring.

I echo the sentiment in this comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48630565

Daishiman 3 hours ago

Because the most vocal rich people in this age seem to have an unusual lack of empathy and just being able to enjoy themselves.

InsideOutSanta 3 hours ago

epolanski 2 hours ago

Yet most wealthy people don't act like that.

The wealthiest man on the planet looks to be quite miserable, insecure and bitter most of the time.

alchemist1e9 2 hours ago

what was your original comment? I’m pretty sure it was a lot more critical sounding.

qudat 3 hours ago

Major props to Mitchell (and his family) for these donations.

jaypatelani 2 hours ago

I would gladly donate this much to NetBSD foundation.

loeg an hour ago

Then do?

walthamstow 3 hours ago

I'm not in the OSS world much so hopefully someone can help me understand: what does 700k buy you in OSS language development?

hiccuphippo 3 hours ago

In the case of Zig, You can see their financial reports here:

https://ziglang.org/news/2025-financials/

Most of it goes to contributors.

alper 2 hours ago

Who are paid at a steady and relatively decent rate. That's cool.

randusername 3 hours ago

tadasv 2 hours ago

This is great IMO. I like zig as a language and the idea behind it. But boy, it has a syntax issue. I with they figure out better syntax before 1.0, developer ergonomics I think are as important.

lukaslalinsky 2 hours ago

Zig has multiple issues, but syntax is definitely not it. It might take a little bit of time getting used to, if you are coming from another language, but it's one of the most readable languages I've ever worked with.

seanclayton 11 minutes ago

Lisps have multiple issues, but syntax is definitely not it. It might take a little bit of time getting used to, if you are coming from another language, but LISPs are some of the most readable languages I've ever worked with.

benatkin 37 minutes ago

That is an opinion framed as a fact. There's plenty to rub a coder the wrong way, such as the sigil in builtin functions like @import, the dot syntax in structures (.{}, Timestamp{ .seconds = 0, .nanos = 0, };), triple slash comments (///), and multiline strings (beginning each with \\ - good luck grepping for escaped backslashes). However, that is just like any programming language - none is immune to this criticism.

dtj1123 2 hours ago

Can you elaborate on what you find to be an issue?

randypewick 2 hours ago

Yay a big win for open source!

Now I wonder what other donations were deemed as much as - or more - useful.

mawadev 2 hours ago

I love this guy

allknowingfrog 3 hours ago

I really appreciate the "it's okay to be weird" sentiment. It has never been easier to try out a crazy idea. We may as well embrace it and try to learn something.

Imustaskforhelp 3 hours ago

> I use AI heavily. I've written about my AI adoption journey and shipping real features with AI assistance. I'm also quite vocal about remaining rational about its capabilities and frustrated with its negative impacts on open source.

> The point is that I have opinions. Those opinions don't fully align with ZSF's approach. And yet, I have nothing but respect for ZSF: the people, the policies, and the project. Part of what makes the internet and open source great is that projects can be weird and different. They can set unusual boundaries, build their own culture, and pursue quality in ways that won't make sense to everyone.

Mitchell does feel like the adult in the room when other people are having chain-saws and acting irrationally for a lack of better term (for example jared/bun controversy which the post just somewhat touches on)

(Mitchell's tweet about AI psychosis is genuinely influential and is now a pointer to what this phenomenon might be)

I really think him and simon's opinions are somehow decently nuanced opinions on AI that the internet has to offer.

Now glazing of mitchell aside, I am happy that zig foundation gets such amount of money and I am really excited that Zig an independent language is able to get the level of love that it does.

There is a famous talk by the creator of Elm on the economics of independent programming languages and how its hard for them to get sponsored if they aren't already working at a company (Rust was created at Mozilla, Golang was created by Google)

This is a real issue that is true for most of open-source and I am just happy that we are atleast moving slowly towards some good as well. Its an uphill battle with multiple lows but I am happy for the positive changes as it gets as open source does have a special place in my heart as it taught me about privacy and many of your hearts as well.

Arrowmaster 2 hours ago

As things are right now, I see this as a respectable way of operating.

Michael has made his views and usage of AI known. The Ghostty project has a detailed AI policy for users to see and the team is willing to devote resources to enforcing a middle ground policy. The Zig project has a detailed policy taking a strict stance and as a result I expect they do not have expend as much resources when a contribution is suspected of being AI assisted.

A strict policy on either side is easier to enforce based on finite resources (mostly people). I'm sure many projects would like to have a middle ground policy but cannot currently devote the resources it would require long term. We might never see a shift in moderation abilities and this remains for the longer term, or there could be advanced in moderation that allows projects to adopt a more nuisanced policy that's right for them.

mi_lk 3 hours ago

Nothing more beautiful when game recognizes game.

Npovview 2 hours ago

I wish Rich people did this more often. Not just rich people but rich companies. Not just rich companies but rich governments. But we are a broken society. People should be paying more to OSS for building digital infrastructure.

acedTrex 2 hours ago

I started using zig more heavily for some edge device ML inference projects lately after watching Andrews jetbrains interview and it really really resonating with me on a personal level.

Am also really overall enjoying the language, it def has some rough spots regarding documentation and the stdlib but overall has been very nice to work with in neovim.

I can't throw 400k but I'll go ahead and pledge some dollars towards it as well.

waffletower an hour ago

I applaud this, particularly as I view Zig as a viable alternative to rust for many applications. Do I think rust is a positive addition to the Linux kernel. Absolutely. Would I reach for rust or Zig first when I was implementing a real-time audio synthesizer if I had to choose between the two? Unless Rusteze, a Clojure dialect hosted on rust existed, I would choose Zig. I sense a hegemonic power growing behind rust, and I think we need to support a breadth of alternatives in how we invoke computation.

Surac 2 hours ago

do good and talk about post

throwaw12 3 hours ago

I read it as a pledge to continue doing non-AI-LLM-slop work. End result could be interesting for everyone, on one side project with no-LLM policy and on the other side projects which heavily rely on LLMs.

In the short term we might not see the benefits, this pledge reads like: "Please keep doing what you are doing now, I am interested in how far it goes" (not in any negative sense)

hylaride 3 hours ago

If I ever get "fuck you" money like Mitchell did, I plan to use his post-money life as an inspiration to "retire".

cute_boi 3 hours ago

I have been using zig and it is so much better. I am thankful they are avoiding vibe slop in compilers.

reinitctxoffset 2 hours ago

Low value comment but obligatory to a superfan: mitchellh is based AF and it just keeps giving back. I switched to `ghostel` in emacs this weekend and it's give or take life changing.

Keep being the fuckin man.

colesantiago 3 hours ago

Doesn't this prove that Mitchell Hashimoto is probably the only "good billionaire"?

I thought all billionaires were bad?

hylaride 3 hours ago

It's because you only hear about the loud ones. There are lots doing good work.

In particular Lauren Bezos and Laurene Powell Jobs.

Warren Buffet is essentially bequeathed the majority of his wealth to good causes.

A lot of the work of the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation is phenomenal (despite the recent and disturbing Epstein news).

George Soros has funded a lot of good causes, depending on how far you want to believe the conspiracy theories.

Harris Rosen funded free daycares and university tuition to benefit an impoverished Orlando community.

Dolly Parton's philanthropy is legendary.

A lot of the Robber barons (Andrew Carnegie, Rockefeller's) bequeathed to causes that Americans are still benefiting from today.

Yvon Chouinard, Founder of Patagonia, pretty much gave the company away for environmental causes.

Chuck Feeney pretty much gave away 99% of his wealth.

qmmmur 2 hours ago

I’m not going to personally donate a little under 0.1% of my net worth, and I may seem a hypocrite, but at some point you have to acknowledge that it’s a maddening, life changing amount of money that in no way would have a noticeable effect on his life. On the other hand, it could hurt most people’s ability to pay rent to give away that money.

Survival is mostly a fixed cost that is unmet by many people, while other people donate those who are less off’s life earnings to their fancies they vibe with. It’s gross. Unfortunately humans are not brave or imaginative enough to realise another system (99% tax on billionaires would be a start), but most people also hate the idea that someone in need would get something for free or at a low cost.

randusername 2 hours ago

Billionaires have an extraordinary economic footprint and level of influence. They employ teams of people managing their affairs through their family offices [0].

I do not think they should be thought of or spoken of as individuals, they are brand entities. Their true intentions are as unknowable from scale and complexity and opacity as, I don't know, Macy's.

Commenting on if any specific billionaire is a uniformly good or bad person distracts from the more important conversation on what the optimal number of billionaires should be and what the tradeoffs are in recalibrating the system.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_office

zamadatix 2 hours ago

Giving away less than 0.1% of your worth over 6 years doesn't prove anything about anything. It's cool for the Zig project though.

There are billionaires who gave over 99% of their wealth away by the time they died who make for much more debates with much more interesting exchanges.

sigzero 3 hours ago

I am sure there are some bad billionaires. That moniker is used to demonize them for the most part.

InsideOutSanta 3 hours ago

I guess it depends on exactly what you're talking about, but my impression is that the primary "billionaires are bad" argument is simply that a system that allows billionaires to exist is inherently broken. A system that rewards people based on their actual contributions would not allow billionaires to exist.

The fact that some billionaires use their money to do good does not contradict that argument.

adrian_b 2 hours ago

It is very likely that most billionaires are very bad.

That does not mean that there are no good billionaires. There are even billionaires who have become billionaires by being bad, but who nonetheless have attempted after that to do only good things, perhaps to atone for their past sins.

Mitchell Hashimoto appears to really be one of the good ones.

I have recently discovered the ghostty open-source terminal emulator, written by him in recent years, which appears to have some advantages that I value, over its competitors, and I have switched to it, after using a very large number of other terminal emulators in the past, and switching between them whenever I encountered a better one.

Therefore I am grateful to him for his good programming work, shared with the world.

Most of ghostty is written in Zig, so there is little doubt that he likes the language, thus there is no surprise that he is choosing it for a donation.

hresvelgr 3 hours ago

Another language that is in a similar space to Zig that I think deserves more attention, particularly for funding is Odin. While I think Zig is a great language, there is a consistency of design and simplicity to Odin that makes low-level programming more ergonomic and enjoyable to me. While Zig boasts a lot of impressive projects, Odin was used to build the JangaFX suite[1].

[1] https://jangafx.com/

rootlocus 18 minutes ago

Ginger Bill, the Odin language developer, is openly hostile against package managers (he wrote a post called "Package Managers Are Evil") so he maintains his own wrappers of popular C libraries in vendor folder next to the compiler. That doesn't sound like a healthy ecosystem to me.

I think zig is also highly opinionated but it always seemed to me that Andrew started from solid pillars and made an excellent job of carefully considering each feature that was added to the language:

- No hidden control flow.

- No hidden memory allocations.

- No preprocessor, no macros.

Odin on the other hand is just some developer's personal taste marketed as "Programming Done Right". So, if you disagree with any choice Bill made, you're not doing programming right.

b-kf 2 hours ago

Appreciate Odin, especially the batteries included approach (simple to use structure of arrays, matrices, array programming, the context system for custom allocators, ...). To be fair though: the heavy lifting in JangaFX is likely done by a ton of C++ code, it being high performance real time graphics programming.

I assume C++ outweighs Odin in their code base by a significant margin (accounting for all dependencies).