Punch yourself in the face with reality (adi.bio)

152 points by AdityaAnand1 8 hours ago

a_c 5 hours ago

I spent multiple 5-hour sessions spec-ing my climbing app with AI, clarifying interactions, algorithm, workflow etc. It ended up a frankenstein that I didn't recognise or know how each part interact with each other. Command line were a mess, different commands doing the same thing, with similar but redundant arguments. Everything looks kind of doing what I intended but overly convoluted and nothing really works. Real progress was made when I actually dig into the documentation of colmap/OpenMVS (essential tools, which I had never used before, in my workflow).

The AI gave me unprecedented turn around time in experimentation. The same experiments would easily take me over a month in the past. Now it was a few days. But still, real progress is made only when my understanding catch up with reality.

SoftTalker 4 hours ago

It's very difficult to keep AI focused, when it barfs out 3 pages of reply in response to a one-sentence prompt. It's sort of its nature for some reason, it's very impressive if you've never seen it but it's exhausting to use for very long. It's like a very eager assistant who doesn't have enough experience to understand scope.

bigmattystyles 3 hours ago

3 pages of reply or overly verbose code, often without abstractions - I read all the posters here and in other forums say that programming has shifted towards reviewing AI output rather than coding said output manually; I agree, however, I just don't buy that everyone is actually reviewing the code as intensely as one would expect - there is a tendency that arrived rather quickly to assume that the AI is correct and efficient. I guess the ultimate reviewer is another AI agent I guess.

a_c 3 hours ago

I find it highly similar between running agents and running human teams.

Clear goal, share context, delegate but verify. Running a team of engineers also inevitably generates pages and pages of material, design spec, code, test, review. Just that we now do that with agents and agents are way less trust worthy

bryanrasmussen 3 hours ago

>It's sort of its nature for some reason

I've known some people who can never stop talking. Maybe they are overly represented in the training set.

sbloz an hour ago

I think the mistake there was the 5 hour session specing the app. It's so hard to know what you want before you see it, so optimize towards seeing it as soon as possible. That's what I thought the article was going to be about based off the title.

Once you have something concrete you can iterate on the prototype until it's a mess. But, hopefully, in that time you got closer to figuring out what you want. And even if the code for the prototype is a mess the "idea" of it should be cleaner. I like to have an LLM make a new spec at that point, and start fresh with it. You can clean up the abstractions and the UX there.

When writing code is cheap figuring out what you want to write is the hard part. It always was, but the barrier of getting the code written and working made that less obvious.

brightball 38 minutes ago

I find the more structure that the AI can be given to follow the better. I recently tried building a side project with Elixir, Phoenix & LiveView but on the recommendation of somebody I decided to have it use the Ash framework within it.

I've been very pleasantly surprised. The combination of the compiler improvements in Elixir 1.20 and the structural guardrails from Ash seems to have led to very consistent, organized and readable code.

inigyou 4 hours ago

It sounds great for prototyping. Once you do a month's experimentation in a day and generate some shit app that barely works, but looks functional, you have a definite goal to recreate that design but working properly.

ryandrake 4 hours ago

It seems like an absolute dream for corporate execs who don't know anything about development, see a taped-together prototype built in a day, and think to themselves "Wow, we're 90% done... we could almost ship that!!"

vitorfblima 3 hours ago

pizzafeelsright 4 hours ago

This was true a while ago. Today we are replacing decades old sloppy production code with 100% verified better code through tests written by AI, code written by AI. This is not looking functional but drop in functional replacement with measurable improvements.

dfee 2 hours ago

ReactiveJelly 2 hours ago

a_c 4 hours ago

Indeed it is. I’m very grateful to what LLM enables me.

The revelation to me was that I used to code what I know, now I could code what I don’t know. The common path is that when I face something I don’t know, which is quite often, to move forward I have to level up my understanding.

randusername 5 hours ago

> And I think that’s the biggest danger of AI. You convince yourself that you are doing something useful when you are not.

Building technology to overcome relatable hardships and frictions is a worthy challenge full of meaning.

Using someone else's technology to erase frictions and hardships from your life can erode meaning.

On my worst days I am convinced programming and technological optimism is a theft of meaning; personal satisfaction at solving a human problem awkwardly mapped to technology, at the expense of users dating, socializing, or consuming with discomfort and therefore the possibility of growth and meaning.

Grombobulous 5 hours ago

I agree with your overall sentiment, although maybe the article and this sentiment more generally are going a little bit overboard with the skepticism/negativity.

It is a little alarming the way people treat AI as another human relationship, yes.

But AI is also a pretty useful research partner and rubber duck for ideas so long as you know going into it that it’s going to have a bias toward agreeing with you.

This situation reminds me of Calvin and Hobbes comics that mock the idea of Calvin’s dad’s idea of building character.

For example, I was debating ECC memory and cheap used business workstation hardware for a homelab recently with an AI. It helped me pick a system out of some eBay listings and verified whether the model and Xeon processor SKU supported ECC.

When I went to buy the RAM, it actually caught a mistake where I thought a listing was for UDIMM when it was actually RDIMM.

It’s not going to build my character or build my growth and meaning to buy the wrong thing from an online store.

NopIdoN 5 hours ago

> It’s not going to build my character or build my growth and meaning to buy the wrong thing from an online store.

dealing with the consequences of my mistakes sounds like growth to me

pixl97 4 hours ago

Grombobulous 4 hours ago

sorokod 7 hours ago

This quote from Philip K Dick seems relevant:

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

totetsu 6 hours ago

It’s a nice quote. But what about the notion that we’re always believing in something, and sometimes those beliefs tune closer to something objective but if we keep tuning past that into something else, then that reality becomes hard to conceive of and really does seem like it’s gone away.

throwawayffffas 5 hours ago

No matter how much you don't believe there is a tiger behind the bush. The tiger really believes you are going to be tasty.

pixl97 3 hours ago

ozim 6 hours ago

When you break a leg you can’t start believing it is all good. It doesn’t go away.

As much as you would have aspirations to be a pro soccer player, badly enough broken leg can prevent you from ever being good enough.

Your imagination of being pro player does go away when in reality you’re not fit for the purpose.

jstanley 5 hours ago

lstodd 6 hours ago

There isn't an exact quote from Douglas Adams, you have to read it all, but he put the point marvelously: reality is scary, unlimited and lovecraftesque, and we have filters to avoid that. Only when you master those filters you can consider yourself conscious.

AdityaAnand1 6 hours ago

Love it.

And something I wish the current crop of AI startups learn as well, just making XYZ agentic maybe isn't the answer to everything.

Same folks that said crypto will destroy traditional finance are now saying stuff like, AI will "destroy" all jobs and create a permanent underclass. Almost feels like every few years a new cult gets created with messaging perfectly designed to trigger the Gen-Z(/current college generation) into a frenzy and drinking the kool-aid.

Can't wait for it to be over (and then to do it all over again with something else). Being in my 30s helps. I care less :)

fragmede 6 hours ago

Yeah. In the 90's it was outsourcing is going to move all software jobs to India. Turns out that did happen, but also not. Still, manufacturing jobs have actually left the USA.

AdityaAnand1 6 hours ago

ChrisMarshallNY 6 hours ago

I have found that it gets some of the "cruft" out of the work, freeing me to do more work.

Since starting to use LLMs, I have actually been spending more time, at the console, than before.

One reason is that I like to ship (as opposed to "code"). That means a lot of tedious, boring stuff. The kind of thing that I want to "take a break before tackling," so I may take 30 minutes, and watch something on TV for a while, before rolling up my sleeves.

Now, the LLM can take care of a lot of this stuff, so I am not motivated to "take a break," so much, anymore.

It doesn't actually feel bad, but I now have to schedule "downtime." I never used to have to do that, before. My work always involved a lot of "context switch" points; naturally set up for taking breaks.

throwawayffffas 5 hours ago

Yeah I have found that AI in general has a procrastination nullifying effect.

Before dealing with anything that might put me off. I can just ask the agent to do it for me. And then, do something else, take that break, but regardless in a few minutes I will have something to jump on instead of the same blank terminal with the same blinking cursor judging me. It really makes taking the first step, much easier and then the ball just gets rolling.

I see what his point is to be honest though, it's easy to say just one more week of polish, just 5 more features, etc.

01284a7e 27 minutes ago

If 90% of tech startups failed in the past, AI pushes that that rate to over 99%.

Cloud was like this too. You spent all this money as a startup with AWS regardless of whether you made a dollar or not.

card_zero 7 hours ago

"Being honest with themselves about whether what they are doing is actually working or not" and "Having the courage to go on when nobody believes in you" are opposites.

jamesrcole 6 hours ago

> "Having the courage to go on when nobody believes in you"

If you're doing something that isn't like how people are used to things being done, is novel, or is contra to common beliefs, there's a good chance that nobody will believe in you. And in such situations, their lack of belief is not a reliable indicator of whether what you're doing is valid or correct. Most people's negative responses in such cases are emotional responses, not rational ones.

In such situations, "Being honest with themselves about whether what they are doing is actually working or not" and "Having the courage to go on when nobody believes in you" are not opposites.

saghm 7 hours ago

Not if you're perfectly able to differentiate which things will eventually succeed rather than will always fail! The best strategy for "winning in the age of AI" is "be able to predict the future with perfect accuracy", which at least anecdotally quite a lot of people lately seem to think they are able to do lately.

Probably not so different from past hype cycles, except maybe this time it will be different!

Schiendelman 7 hours ago

There's a difference.

The first is getting market feedback.

The second is just getting opinions.

pixl97 2 hours ago

If I listened to market feedback I would have delivered a faster horse.

Schiendelman 40 minutes ago

pjc50 7 hours ago

Not quite. Optimism about where you are going doesn't conflict with being able to accurately assess where you currently are.

It does require you to think carefully about what constitutes validation or invalidation of your ideas, though.

_moof an hour ago

No, they're actually the same thing: making an honest assessment of reality. In the first case you're doing so to prevent self-delusion. In the second you're doing so to prevent others from clouding your judgment.

lo_zamoyski 6 hours ago

Not really. You can be honest about something working and others can disagree with your assessment.

vanviegen 5 hours ago

In this context "working" means selling. If you're selling the product that means that others are on board.

zkmon 2 hours ago

> Who can punch themselves in the face with reality the most? This is who will win in the age of AI.

Reminds me of a politician in India who would ask elders in his family to slap him hard before he starts out on the election campaigns. He says that the slaps are meant to keep him alert and honest.

all2 26 minutes ago

Pain is a powerful teacher. I have grown the most when I hurt.

jimbokun an hour ago

> If all you know is how to build, and you just use AI as an excuse to keep building more and more and more, you are just procrastinating and avoiding reality.

I’ve had this sense about AI for a while now and this articulates that feeling far better than I’ve been able to.

quirkot 6 hours ago

Such a great synopsis. The things that are easy to signal (landing page, presentation deck, logo, etc) have never been the make-or-break aspect. The part that's always been hard, that remains hard, is that a business must solve a problem for people. Even B2B is solving business problems for specific people. And people are a difficult, difficult problem to solve.

AdityaAnand1 6 hours ago

My previous business failed. Everything we built was useless. 2.5 yrs.

My current business is profitable. Almost everything we built was still useless. Since 4 yrs ago.

The amount of effort that went into that "almost" Is something that I don't think AI moved any needle for even though half of our journey was after AI coding took off.

Speed of coding was never the problem, still isn't even if AI allegedly 10x-ed it.

inigyou 4 hours ago

Is it really? Most startups don't seem to solve anything for anyone, not really, but they do enough to get investor money, using pitch decks and logos and landing pages, and the founder gets paid from investor money while the product collapses, which seems like a success for the founders to me.

pizzafeelsright 4 hours ago

The goal isn't solving a problem (for founders) but to get investor money. The VC system is designed to 100x investments.

People who solve problems while being profitable do not take investment money unless they want to expand or sell.

"What is the exit?" that is the question for every startup.

ryandrake 4 hours ago

Many startups simply solve the following problem: Rich person has a massive amount of money, and wants to use some of that to chase risky returns. They don't really know what to do with it, so they become an LP and act as part of a risk sink for crazy ideas. In that way, the pitch decks, logos, landing pages, and breathless hype is, itself, the "problem" in the process of being solved.

alansaber 3 hours ago

andai 7 hours ago

>Figure out why you were put on this earth.

Who is responsible for this mess? ;)

inigyou 5 hours ago

Nobody. We're just here. Mentally healthy human adults have ways to avoid thinking about the terrifying reality of infinite potential being restricted by a finite lifespan of decay, but not everyone is mentally healthy all the time.

alansaber 3 hours ago

Ah, so this is why oldschool runescape is still popular

smcg 5 hours ago

I feel bruised

vertias3u 4 hours ago

Same

SoftTalker 3 hours ago

> I have seen way too many startup founders delude themselves into building more and more for months without a single conversation with a real user

This has been a problem since the beginning of tech startups. I worked in a dot-com in the late 1990s. Lots of investor money. New offices. Hundreds of employees. The product was well thought out, fairly well built, and it worked. But they had no customers. It's even in the same market niche as products that today have millions of users, but those folks weren't ready for it in 1999, at least not enough of them and quickly enough to matter.

Building something quickly is only a small part of what it takes to have a successful startup. You must solve a problem for people who are ready for your solution and willing to pay for it.

pixl97 2 hours ago

Hence marketing in making people want it.

So you have two options, be good at making people want to spend money on something. This is pretty hard and a rare capability.

The other is to watch trends and catch what people want now, and be ready to deliver a product that does that....

OlavKoefoed 4 hours ago

Reminds me of the part in "Silicon Valley" where they launched and couldn't figure out why no-one (except engineers) became real users.

threethirtytwo 4 hours ago

No this isn't punching yourself in the face. Not for swes.

What's written above is self confirmation that you are better than AI and that you will always have a job because you are better because AI can't build something that works. That stuff about convincing yourself you're building something useful is actually the easy question.

Punching yourself in the face involves telling truths that are incredibly hard to stomach. That you don't matter, that all your years of coding and your identity is about to be consumed by a machine that is superior. The fact that you still hold a rank as a software engineer right now is only because that machine is slightly worse than you. But as it improves, your role becomes meaningless. The life you built your skills around becomes meaningless. It is less about what AI is now and more about the trajectory of AI and what the current AI says about the AI of the near tomorrow. We don't code by hand anymore and this came about in less than 5 years since the popular rise of LLMs. Think about what the next 5 years will bring.

That is punching yourself in the face with reality^^

zahlman an hour ago

> We don't code by hand anymore

/usr/bin/vim on my machine begs to differ.

ReactiveJelly 2 hours ago

"Nature cannot be fooled"

bana-io 4 hours ago

Click biat. Sorry.