Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model (thinkingmachines.ai)

257 points by vimarsh6739 2 hours ago

segmondy 36 minutes ago

Very nice, multi modal, largest open weight model that supports audio. Would be interesting to see how good the audio capability is.

If you want to run locally, checkout https://github.com/danielhanchen/llama.cpp/tree/add-inkling https://unsloth.ai/docs/models/inkling https://huggingface.co/unsloth/inkling-GGUF https://huggingface.co/unsloth/inkling-NVFP4

This supposedly is better than KimiK2.7, as much hype as GLM5.2 gets, I find myself using KimiK2.7 half of the time, so if the benchmark is true, then this can definitely go in the mix. My hope is that it might have strengths in some areas to beat all other open weight models.

ls_stats 2 hours ago

America needs its own DeepSeek or Z.ai, a lot of people (myself included) root for open chinese models to win because they have no other choice.

Thinking Machines might be it.

joshmarlow 37 minutes ago

I don't hear about them a lot but it looks like arcee.ai is aiming to be just that.

Here are some of their current open weight offerings: https://www.arcee.ai/open-source-catalog

UncleOxidant 7 minutes ago

Hopefully they'll release some smaller models (<100B) that we can run on home hardware at faster than 10tok/s.

gkapur 2 hours ago

It could be but there are a host of companies going after open weights models: Arcee, Reflection, Llama (TBD on Meta's focus on closed-source versus open-source), etc.

That said, the fine-tuning API + open weight model at least is a semblance of a viable business that could work so I will be curious about it. I'm not sure the synergy is fully there (why is someone with an open weights model privelaged to fine-tune it better if it's just QLora or Lora) but let's see!

andriy_koval an hour ago

> It could be but there are a host of companies going after open weights models: Arcee, Reflection, Llama (TBD on Meta's focus on closed-source versus open-source), etc.

my bet is that Chinese government fund Chinese models way more compared to what those companies receive (except llama, which is outdated but was strong foundation at its time)

gkapur an hour ago

mannanj an hour ago

bostonvaulter2 38 minutes ago

What is the business model for an open weight model?

matsur 15 minutes ago

Thinky has a potential answer in Tinker — give away the weights and charge for the SFT (and maybe RL down the line) to make the model more capable for specific tasks.

raincole 7 minutes ago

To compete against America. If your country has something like DeepSeek you really can't afford to let it fall as it's your best leverage if the US government decides to ban companies in your country from accessing American LLMs. And this is why there will never be a "DeepSeek of the US."

gtirloni a minute ago

ergocoder 10 minutes ago

The same business model that Deepseek is using.

Open-source models + services. This is more attractive because it doesn't lock in the vendors. If I grow larger, I can decide to deploy the open-source models.

tonic_note 21 minutes ago

isn't that what Reflection is trying to be?

verdverm 2 hours ago

Its not as good as GLM 5.2 for agentic workflows while also being bigger. Competition is going to be ruthless because the super low cost to switching.

There is also AllenAi in the US, but they have yet to produce a model at this scale. Thankfully, new contenders can come out of nowhere and do well, as long as they can produce a competitive model.

InsideOutSanta an hour ago

> Its not as good as GLM 5.2 for agentic workflows while also being bigger

GLM 5.2 underwent extensive post-training and iteration since its original release to reach its current state. This seems like an extremely strong model for a first release, with a lot of potential for improvement, just like DS4.

Sometimes I wish Meta had stuck with Llama 4 a bit longer to see how much further it could be pushed.

verdverm 6 minutes ago

ianbutler 2 hours ago

It's nice to see a strong long context open weights model that is multi-modal.

There are many applications that will benefit from the strength in audio here and until z.ai and co work in visual this could be very strong for general agentic applications, though I see there's a bit of weakness in the benches for areas that might make that less true.

Like all models need to slap it in your harness and do proper evals on the tasks you care about.

0xbadcafebee an hour ago

MiniMax M3 and DeepSeek v4-Pro are highly capable long context open weight multi-modal models. But long-context is a trap, because performance still falls dramatically after 150k-200k context.

ianbutler 21 minutes ago

> But long-context is a trap, because performance still falls dramatically after 150k-200k context.

I often see this repeated, and it is not true task to task. I work on this daily and we have several tasks where long context is advantageous and our evals against a whole battery of models with different windows show it as being so.

This is why having good evals for the tasks you're working on is so important.

I do grant it's a good rule of thumb.

InsideOutSanta an hour ago

> But long-context is a trap, because performance still falls dramatically after 150k-200k context.

I'm not sure exactly what causes the difference, but this heavily depends on the model. In my experience with Opus 4.8, I can go well over 500k and still get extremely good results. A drastically different example was GLM-5.1, which worked great until about 100k and then turned insane almost immediately. They did fix that with 5.2, though.

kancha 11 minutes ago

Not compared against Gemma 4? That is a big omission.

minraws an hour ago

For a first model, and given it's open, I am gaining some faith in American Open research labs again...

I couldn't test it since it's not on openrouter or something, but even if it's only as good as GLM5.1 that's more than good enough first attempt, I think.

Perhaps a lot more labs will catch up to ballpark frontier esque level soon, I am all for more competition in any field.

cpt100 3 minutes ago

NVIDIA is building Nemotron

janalsncm 2 hours ago

For the most part it’s better than Nemotron, worse than GLM. This makes it the best American open weights model from what I can tell?

nickludlam an hour ago

It's nearly double the size of Nemotron 3 Ultra, so I'd expect it to be considerably better, although the active parameter count seems to be a touch lower at 41B vs 55B

Reubend 2 hours ago

Seems like this is particularly good at instruction following, but not as strong at coding as others. It's always great to get more diversity of open weight models though! I'll need to test this out to see what its "personality" is like.

dr_dshiv an hour ago

What are the different business models for open-weight AI companies?

subygan an hour ago

For thinking machines, they provide super simple finetuning APIs.

if it is their model, they can have more lower level integrations for that. Thinking machines might be the only large lab in the US to have business interest aligned with open sourcing strong models that are customizable.

firasd an hour ago

Just serving the model over API seems like a natural fit and is what many of them are doing. So simply being the cloud provider for your own open weight model can be a source of revenue

charcircuit an hour ago

What is the moat? The time it takes for AI to rewrite an efficient inference stack for a new model? Considering most LLMs follow a similar architecture, adapting to a new model shouldn't take that much time.

dgellow 5 minutes ago

InsideOutSanta an hour ago

dyauspitr an hour ago

But so can everyone else. What’s the moat for spending all those billions. I understand the Chinese angle, they need to undermine American models as a matter of statecraft, but what is the business model here? It just seems like VC charity.

kingleopold 34 minutes ago

3848488459 an hour ago

JimsonYang 42 minutes ago

Maybe the thesis is that

Open source low cost models will dominate most enterprise tasks as cost curves will dictate usage. TM is trying to replicate that especially as the US and China gets more defensive with their tech

Topfi an hour ago

Similar to companies working on FOSS codebases, hosting (sometimes with the license restricting third-parties in some way), providing tailored models and services to customer's and getting bought for your team if your model happens to be competitive enough.

vanuatu an hour ago

- inference

- RLaaS (Tinker, or the more involved FDE motion a la Reflection / Applied Compute)

GodelNumbering 39 minutes ago

Interestingly, when opening this page, the first thought I had was not that the benchmarks should be high, but 'I really hope they did not benchmaxx'. I think a model with modest benchmark scores can have much better real world utility as opposed to the current frontiers that are RL'd into being robotic and rigid.

firasd an hour ago

Looks like it can be tried at https://tinker.thinkingmachines.ai/playground

alansaber 2 hours ago

I never thought i'd see the day they released a model, rather than a blog post. The Figure 3 demo being a screencap of chrome in localhost made me feel better about myself. Jokes aside, best western open weights model- very cool.

pr337h4m 2 hours ago

They are one of the few labs (perhaps even the only one at this level) that are doing something both unique and useful, rather than simply imitating what the others are doing: https://thinkingmachines.ai/blog/interaction-models/

bbstats an hour ago

too bad we'll never know how good it is, since they used a radar plot to show its benchmark scores!

InsideOutSanta an hour ago

How does the radar plot prevent you from looking at just one of its axes?

ggcr an hour ago

My personal bet is that this model should really shine in Autoresearch NanoGPT-style speedruns because its first-class integration with Tinker

mhluongo an hour ago

Interested in the implied strategy - that training a bespoke model for what you need will make economic sense over using a mass-trained model. I wonder if that's true?

androiddrew an hour ago

Give me a good 180B param model that fits snuggly on an single DGX spark and I will sing your praises.

pants2 2 hours ago

The Artifical Analysis has a link on their homepage but it 404's :/

https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/inkling

amarble 2 hours ago

They also indicate they have a 276B A12B version, but it doesn't seem the weights are available. This might actually be able to fit in 128GB when quantized to 2 bits or so which makes it interesting.

Flux159 2 hours ago

They mention in the announcement link https://thinkingmachines.ai/news/introducing-inkling/ that they are still testing Inkling-Small and it will also still be multimodal. This makes it super interesting as a Deepseek V4 Flash replacement (and would be interesting with DwarfStar / ds4 if it gets supported).

solomatov an hour ago

It looks like HuggingFace shows Apache-2.0 but they have AUP. How does it work together?

bobkb 2 hours ago

Happy to see an open weight model ! This has all the right ingredients for success.

inkvi an hour ago

Do they have an api to try the model in real envs?

trilogic 19 minutes ago

You certainly cooking smth, Good Luck Mira.

RohoSwagger 16 minutes ago

why is this website ai slop

verdverm 2 hours ago

If it's ~30% bigger and not as good as GLM 5.2, why would I tinker with this model?

Maybe for the multi modal?

Aurornis 2 hours ago

> If it's ~30% bigger and not as good as GLM 5.2, why would I tinker with this model?

The benchmarks never tell the full story. Some of the open weights models have been benchmaxxed for a while. Their utility on real work can be different than the benchmark number.

The multimodal input is also a big deal. Having vision input is really helpful for a lot of tasks.

speedping 2 hours ago

I second that. Gemini 3.5 Flash rocks the benchmark charts but is terrible as an agent. Horrible instruction adherence and makes WAY too many tool calls

luckydata an hour ago

buremba 2 hours ago

Then why are they publishing the benchmarks which makes them look worse than GLM 5.2?

buremba 22 minutes ago

godelski 44 minutes ago

verdverm an hour ago

gkapur 2 hours ago

If they have a really seamless fine-tuning experience and maybe can help you extract the data you need to FT (which is one of the big challenges in actually getting fine-tuning democratized), maybe you would use it because "Tinker" defaults to it.

The model could also be more flexible for non-coding use-cases (they show the results for reasoning being strong) so maybe the argument is to use it for non-coding use-cases to drive relatively deterministic conclusions for non-coding agents (they have also done some determinism work on kernels, which could be useful in pulling on that thread of deterministic models that are fine-tuned for everything that is not writing code.)

That said, I'm not sure how much all the work they have done actually synergizes or if the market size (at least in the short to medium term) is big enough for a huge outcome from the company's current valuation with those bets as the enterprise agent estate is taking a while to evolve. Hence companies like Anthropic and OpenAI are throwing tons of consulting money at the problem.

Flux159 2 hours ago

There's also an Inkling-Small that is 276B, 12B active that is much smaller than GLM 5.2 and still multimodal. Not released yet, but in the announcement link they mention that they're testing Inkling-Small & will release as open weight after testing. That one may be interesting as a Deepseek V4 Flash replacement.

pizlonator an hour ago

> Maybe for the multi modal?

Yeah

MaxPock an hour ago

Raised 2 billion dollars at a 12 billion valuation and debuts at 41 on the Artificial Analysis Intelligence Index, while KIMI and DeepSeek will release Fable-class models this week. What a joke.

gordonhart an hour ago

Moonshot (Kimi) has raised $3.77B and been around for >3 years, Thinking Machines raising $2B and releasing a decent open weights model in 16 months is actually quite comparable.

KronisLV an hour ago

> ...while KIMI and DeepSeek will release Fable-class models this week.

What new model is DeepSeek releasing? Their current V4 Pro at Max reasoning is consistently worse than GLM 5.2 at Max reasoning, though the latter is close to Opus 4.8 at Extra/Max reasoning, albeit a little bit worse in my experience (though if they gave comparable amounts of tokens to Anthropic 5x Max subscription I could see myself moving over, currently they give you less though even with their ZCode discount).

In practical agentic development, none of those seem to be that close to Fable to me. Spent 181 million tokens with GLM 5.2 with ZCode in the past month, 142 million with DeepSeek V4 Pro with ZCode and OpenCode and about 3.45 billion across all Anthropic models with Claude Code, though understandably with my workload between 95-99% of them are cached (very docs/plan/tooling/read heavy work to limit slop, albeit with sub-agents and workflows).

segmondy 34 minutes ago

DeepSeekV4 was a preview model, read the papers. It's not the final model. They released it to demonstrate architectural capabilities. They are still training and the model release is planned within the next month.

KronisLV 6 minutes ago

raverbashing 2 hours ago

Cool, now we just need the GPU that supports it