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I say this as someone with tens of thousands in audio equipment, as someone who can hear the compression warble in the hihats and the cymbals - audio quality with earbuds doesn't actually matter. It's like the argument for audio quality in cars - you're listening in a hostile environment, and convenience wins over fidelity. I remember walking to work one time with over-the-ear Sennheisers attached to my iPod and it felt ridiculous, and unsafe.

I finally capitulated to earbuds when they started giving them away with the Pixel phones. The "find my" feature basically justifies the pro-prices, to me, because my biggest complaint about bluetooth earbuds in my own use case was how easily they're lost. I've lost and recovered my Pixel Buds Pro 2 a couple of times now. When traveling a lot by train and plane, the convenience of pocket-sized noise-cancelling earbuds has become worth it for me.

But when I'm on meetings, I'm wired in. During the pandemic, I lost track of how many times my colleagues' Airpods would sputter out and die in the middle of a client meeting. Then they'd switch to wired headphones and their Macbook microphone. They sounded better, they could hear better, and there was no battery power sword of Damocles anymore.

The connection type has nothing to do with it though. Modern bluetooth is basically transparent with 256kbps AAC, like you'd have to be an omega-expert listening in a silent room to identify it vs lossless. Certainly the difference you're noticing is just the headphone quality.

Honestly for me the Airpods 4 with ANC are one of the greatest feats of audio engineering ever. For such a tiny form factor they reproduce really great sound, big soundstage, AND they have good ANC without needing a closed earbud seal. They also have internal mics that listen to the response of your ear to adjust the sound profile, which you can hear happen in real time after bumping the earbuds. Obviously you can get better sound if you make different tradeoffs and wear over-ears, but they are absolutely cutting edge for what they are.

I have a friend that was in the music industry for decades, and listening to music was a significant aspect of his job.

To this day (he’s retired), he won’t use wireless (even ones with bespoke connections).

I use AirPods when I take my morning walks. The shitty quality is actually a plus, because I can hear the cars that try to run me over (I walk at 5:30 AM, and people are not at the top of their game, at that time).

I have a couple of pairs of Bose QC headphones, for in-home listening. There’s nothing [wireless] that comes close, for ANC.

The new regular AirPods are interesting to me.

I'm reminded of a quote: "the best camera is the one you have on you." People ditched their digital cameras en masse when smartphones became popular. Not because the smartphone cameras were better, but because they were convenient.

The market has spoken. People drastically prefer the convenience of Bluetooth over the quality that comes along with having to constantly untangle wires or having audio cut in and out from failing wires.

On top of that, universal adoption of noise cancellation has resulted in dramatically better quality in practice than what people were using in 2005. Yes, wired headphones with noise cancellation are even better, but not to a point that people are willing to sacrifice the convenience of going wireless.

> It is quite absurd (but categorically true) that the quality of audio that folks were generally listening to in 2005 was better than what we are doing today.

Comparing Apples to Apples, AirPods are definitely sound better and are more useful than the pack-in iPod earphones that everyone used back then.

> But I recently acquired a schiit vestri and I pair these with some old wired seinheisers (HD1). I cannot overstate the drastic difference in quality.

These sound better because they're $500 full-size headphones, not because they lack Bluetooth.

> It is quite absurd (but categorically true) that the quality of audio that folks were generally listening to in 2005 was better than what we are doing today

The AirPods use 256kbps AAC. If you set up a true ABX test, you would not be able to tell the difference between 256kbps AAC and lossless using the same gear.

The average Joe, via AirPods and the like, in 2026 has access to vastly better audio than in 2005.

In 2005, you had serious and expensive high end audio from the established brands (Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic etc.) and you had consumer audio for consumer prices that sounded pretty terrible: no bass extension, flat mids.

In 2026 you have:

- Serious and expensive high end audio from the established brands (maybe even some of the same models as 2005...)

- A new category of convenience driven "mid-fi" like all the Sony, Bose etc. ANC headphones and AirPods Pro - often with the "laid back, a lot of bass, slightly recessed mids" sound signature but still producing very acceptable sound

- Consumer audio for consumer prices, but now even the cheap earbuds and headphones (JBL, chinese brands etc.) sound by all means passable, are wireless, have good battery life

I would say there has never been a better time to be a "good sound enjoyer" than now.

$19 iems sound better than airpods, the bar is that low, but normies don't care, most probably listen to spotify on auto and get 96kbps anyways. When the batteries invariably die after 2-3 years they'll send another $150 to Tim Apple while their old airpod finally become the e-waste they were destined to be

> It is quite absurd (but categorically true) that the quality of audio that folks were generally listening to in 2005 was better than what we are doing today.

This isn't really true in any applicable way though.

Firstly, most people in 2005 were ripping CDs onto their ipods at itunes' 128kbps default - you're still only getting 160kbps today if you're running the free ad-supported Spotify plan but more people are paying for full quality.

More importantly though, the biggest impact on sound quality is noise isolation. People listen to music on the street, in an office bullpen, or public transport: in 2005 your wired sennheissers would need to be overear to deal with that environment in any reasonable manner.The ANC in even the non-pro in-ear airpods is giving you a night-&-day improvement.

>I cannot overstate the drastic difference in quality.

Quality is governed by your subjective experience. The HD1s are tuned in a way that, paired with the Vestri and the files, creates the experience that you enjoy better. That's it. It's not about "better quality" and definitely not about "fidelity."

You also paid probably $99 for something that Apple perfected and sells for $10 -- that USB DAC. Which is fine! You should spend money on things that make you happy.

>The quality of audio that folks were generally listening to in 2005 was better than what we are doing today.

This sentence doesn't have enough detail. What is quality supposed to mean here?

> where the default choice of headphones is Bluetooth.

Unfortunately not giving wired headphones away (with the phone purchase) and not including the standard 3.5 mm headphone jack, means that 'normal' people just put their phone calls and play their video on speaker, to the annoyance of everyone (on public transport).

You say that as if this wasn't completely to plan. The release of the first airpods and the first iPhone sans headphone jack were at the same time. It was brute-forced.

We've been over this for a couple decades now. The average consumer simply cannot tell the difference between lossless and compressed codecs. Even back 20-25 years ago when people carried around CD players, vanishingly few people batted an eye when those went the way of the dodo and devices started getting loaded up with shitty 128 kbps MP3s. The difference in quality mattered far less than the convenience.

There are many, many people who are even technically minded who would be surprised that their expensive AirPods Max cannot reproduce lossless audio from Apple Music when used wirelessly.

Different people want different things. Whenever I wore wired headphones, I was always catching the wire on things, and I found them really inconvenient - to the point where when I bought a new phone the headphones just went into my pile of unused headphones. AirPods were a complete change for me - I use them constantly. The sound quality difference is irrelevant - I just won't wear wired headphones - the hassle isn't worth it for me.

As someone with probably already a bit of hearing damage and who is generally not an Audiophile. I remember when i switched from Wired Headphones to Wireless and man I cannot hear the difference. Which I assume many people don't either. For me it is no difference in hearing pleasure and much more comfort.

> It is quite absurd (but categorically true) that the quality of audio that folks were generally listening to in 2005 was better than what we are doing today.

I seem to recall most people being perfectly content with 128kbps MP3s on iPod earbuds back in the day. Only audiophiles/nerds (of which there seem to be more now) were into actual headphones and amp setups and there's never been greater market choice in this regard.

I got a pair of Bose qc-25 and a fiio q1 for about the price of a set of earbuds. (Bose were refurbs from bose's ebay store and fiio was closing out the q1 at the time.) That combo kicks the everloving shit out of any Bluetooth headphones I've tried.

Im used to listening to a staticy job site radio half way across the shop. I dont really care about the quality as long as its better than that. I feel most people are the same.

>the quality of audio that folks were generally listening to in 2005 was better than what we are doing today

Is it tho ? I remember back in the day, most of my music collection is in 128kbps mp3, well under the bandwidth of bluetooth

I often use wired $10 Sony ZX headphones and for audio even those are vastly superior to any earbuds, including my AirPod Pros.

The AirPods were the most convenient piece of electronics I’ve ever owned, but the sound is earbud quality.

I would venture to guess that the average user can’t tell. Most of the time, I’m just looking for some background noise, not a listening experience. The speaker on the iPhone is good enough for that.

I have a pair of wired Seinheisers, and they sound great, but 99% of the time, my priority is convenience, and anything that makes sound will do.

It is even worse in home theater. People went from legit sound systems with an amp and speaker wire runs to actual speakers, proper audio channels, to what at best a sound bar from walmart and zero dynamic range.

On my older android phone I always have problems watching anything with bluetooth headphones adding so much lag that the video gets very desynced with the audio. So I will continue to use wired headphones (now via usb-c adapter since the dedicated port is gone)

Not just audio quality. Playback and consumption quality. My Winamp setup c 2005 was worlds better than what’s possible now on a typical listening device. Eq. Crossfading. Visualizer.

All possible but not common

FYI: There are now lossless Bluetooth codecs if you care to find them.

Can you get anc with wired ones?

Talking about sound quality: I'm surprised at how good the Apple event sounded, even on your average (wired) headphones

Sounds much better than some 80% of YT videos

I used to obsess over audio quality. But then I reached my 40s, and it started to become clear that my ageing ears were becoming the limiting factor.

Now I just embrace the convenience of Bluetooth and usefulness of noise cancelling.

(But then again, even my AirPods or Sony XM4s are high fidelity compared to what many of the kids these days are listening with, small mono bluetooth speakers or playing music out of their phone speakers)

> It is quite absurd (but categorically true) that the quality of audio that folks were generally listening to in 2005 was better than what we are doing today.

I don't believe this statement is true, as someone who cares about audio quality and has been making my own audio equipment and buying high end audio gear since well before 2005. The bar for the average has raised considerably in the last 21 years, even though it was always possible to have better. I use AirPods when I'm traveling on a plane or walking/commuting by public transit and to take phone calls, when I want to listen to music critically I have a >$10k headphone setup that obviously puts a pair of AirPods to shame. They're not the same device for the same use case, and that doesn't make them somehow "bad". Use the right tool for the job.

The average person was not listening to music with multi-hundred-dollar headphones in 2005. They were using cheap earbuds.

If you are using apple then its AAC from your phone directly to your headphones… so not seeing where the quality drop would come from.

Only if "pure marketing juice" means "plainly telling people about a straightforward feature they're adding to one of their products." Which like, okay, that is what marketing is, but are you suggesting they don't tell people?

Wait, they added this feature that was only on pro models to the non pro ones, seems reasonable to mention?

The Pros don't fit my ears even with the smallest ear tips. I definitely welcome bringing that feature to the regular model.

The swipe controls are terrible on my Pro 2s and make me miss physical buttons like on my ancient Jabra 65t. It's easier to reach into a pocket and push the volume buttons on my phone without unlocking or looking at it.

They brought a Pro feature to the base model and dropped the price. I don't want Pros because I prefer hard plastic tips.

They're not doing anything deceptive or clever.

Cheaper than last gen too.

Actually in the event they presented it exactly like that.

why not? lets not talk about it, people like this gonna say we are highlighting a new feature on a non-pro model

Uh they're literally just saying they brought it down from the Pro to the regular line. I don't know why you're reading too much into it.

My freebud 5's do that now.

"For users who want even more"

> … apple selling volume up and down as it were some fantastical feature and not have been present in air pods pro since god nows when.

I’ve been having to throw away my earphones and getting new ones whenever I needed a new volume setting. Going up and down in the same device is truly a game changer.

/s

Come on, it's their best AirPod yet!

Translation: “We took a pro thing and put it on the non-pros. Money please.”

The marketing kool-aid must flow. Many other earbuds have swipe volume, but because they aren't open-ear Apple gets to claim this amazing breakthrough.

Of all the marketing to complain about, this seems super tame. Wait until you see "gluten-free tortilla chips" at the supermarket. :D

Apple's product has never been near the top in ergonomics nor sound quality, there's no big mystery. The UX and the ANC were their differentiator but the competition has largely closed that gap.

$129*

*without a case

I assume the long stem increases the likelihood it will be dislodged from the ear because it increases torque at the point of contact when moving. The first AirPods were much less secure in the ear than current ones. Reducing stem length may lower the risk of them falling out.

The long stem may have been a necessary but suboptimal engineering tradeoff to get the first version out the door. A lot of design tweaks have gone into making AirPods less likely to fall out.

Personally I prefer it. Less chance of accidentally knocking them out.

Ew no. Long stem AirPods look goofy

Aesthetics. Short stem looks sleeker.

Form vs. function

>Extend the Stem!!

Same thought as well. It doesn't have to be much bigger, but even 10% longer would be much more useful from mic placement and battery perspective.

Longer stem means bigger case. The case on the Pro is nice, the regular one not so much.

I really miss the BeatsX headphones where it’s 2 earbuds attached to each other with a flexible cable that drapes over the back of your neck. It was nice to be able to take my headphones out without needing to hold them and they just fall over my shoulders like a necklace. Also means not having to keep track of a third item since there’s no charging case. And the whole thing is soft and flexible so you can put it more easily in your pocket without it bulging like the AirPods in a case do.

I find the “true wireless” form factor finnicky and comically easy to lose and easy to drop. I don’t really see much utility in it either aside from the cool technology flex. If they’d put the modern audio quality and noise cancelling on the BeatsX (and the more neutral AirPods response curve) I’d be first in line.

It’s Apple so the answer is clear: shorter stems look nicer. Functionality be damned. You’re holding it wrong my dude. Nobody wants to look like they have q-tips in their ears.

Not trying to convince your anything, just putting it out there for those that are plagued by this, but I had similar issues and memory foam tips solved this for me with airpods. For me they'll stay in if i'm basically motionless, but as soon as I move they're on the run.. With the foam tips I'm able to do basically anything and not worry about losing an expensive earbud.

I'm afraid to try expensive over the ear headphones again after a pair of XM3's started making the most hideous screeching noise right after the warranty expired.

Sony.

Like you, I have weird ear canals, and I've always struggled with fit; the Apple ones are the worst.

I have the Sony earbuds, and while I agree they fit a little better, I find the memory foam disgusting. It also degrades over time and becomes brittle. My solution was the Alza SednaEarfit Max, which are silicone earbud tips that fit the Sony. They are easy to clean and come with the tiny mesh that prevents ear wax from getting into the electronic part of the earbud. Of all the tips I've tried, these stay the best.

However, they still fall out too easily if I'm eating (from jaw movements) or lying on my side.

PS. You mean Sony WH1000MX4. Not Sennheiser. Although Sennheiser makes the Momentum True Wireless, which comes with silicone earbud tips.

What about IEMs with custom earmolds?

Too much competition from China. They would have bumped the price if it wasn't for the cheap alternatives from every Chinese manufacturer.

When they get down to 10% put one in the case, by the time your other bug gets to 1% you changed the first one. No gaps

It's really not that hard. The Galaxy Buds Plus from 2020 get 11 hours of battery on a single charge. Same for the Sony WF-C510 that are $70

Really?

15% more price for 25% more battery is worth it alone. Add in that every time I adjust the volume without needing to dig out my phone, and I’ll feel even better.

$20 is a single meal at a fast food restaurant, which I’ll have forgotten about the very next day. This is a much better long term investment.

I would pay for the stem volume controls alone.

I prefer the regular AirPods to in-ear. But I still keep an old pair of Pro's around purely because the stem is so convenient for changing volume when I'm walking the dog or out for a run and I'd rather not get my phone out my pocket.

I'd happily buy the older versions for less. Which is why they don't allow that.

The differentiating feature is the Wireless Charging case, which they've had a separate SKU for forever.

I bought the AirPods 4 with ANC in large part due to the Wireless Charging Case.

These things have usable lifespans of about 2-4 years before the batteries start to go (depending on how low a capacity you can tolerate). It’s more like you buy the one available at the time when your old ones wear out.

^ knocking it before anyone on earth tried it- minus apple

That might send wrong signals that Apple has started following standard/common specs.

Back when BLE Audio was first announced, I thought Apple would champion it because it finally extends quality limitations making the microphone quality terrible. I guess they’re content with doing their proprietary thing.

I would like that. I wonder if its something a software update can enable or not

For real. I almost think they shouldn't practice, script it, or focus-group it. Just get up there and wing it. Would honestly sound better.

Because most people outside of the US find fake excitement off-putting and borderline creepy.

Honestly after a while my ears just can't stay earbuds anymore, it's just painful. For long haul flights (over 6hours) I also bring over-ear headphones regardless of battery life.

Yup. They just works. So satisfying. Now, Apple, shut up and take my money! Actually that is satisfying part. And please make sure I need to pay that money again in a year or two. Thank you. Happy to be an Apple user. Best company.

god it feels inevitable but i hate wearable tech including innocuous cameras. first it was the sunglasses that ppl immediately jailbroke to remove the recording indicator. now the possibility of a person seemingly listening to music on the train potentially recording me?

im just so tired.

I hope, not I will never buy airpods with cameras.

The $100 iPhone price rises, the $20-40/yr Apple Care for iPhone price rise?

mostly likely you need to clean your case

Im on my third pair of Airpods pro (replacement courtesy of Apple) and all of them had the ANC partially fail the longer i use them. I wonder why Apple still release new versions of these whem they cant even get the basics right.

I’ve had them for 3,5 years now and off the top of my head I can’t remember where the “charging leads” are. So it’s safe to say that mine definitely don’t get gunked up.

Is that you, Shrek?

They already do have inductive charging. Both MagSafe, Qi. They even work on the watch charger.

That’s for all AirPod Pros, and definitely the AirPod 4 with ANC, not sure about other non pros.

I have exactly the same setup (two iPhones, a Moondrop Space Travel myself, wife has AirBuds, family account set up so we can buy apps only once). It never happened to us, but it happens frequently between my wife's iPhone and her iPad. I wonder if you have ever connected it to your phone even accidentally, it seems that this is remembered.

yes, this is annoying. On each device, you have to find the AirPods via the bluetooth settings and tell it to connect "when last connected" instead of "automatically"

A manual operation wouldn't shock me at all. A friend used to work on Apple.com and as recently as 5 years ago the product pages were still hard coded. No CMS.

They have multiple fake product "labs" with which to use as sets simply for filming these videos. I am sure one or two FTEs is plausible.

Ah thats the one of the differences between standard and pro? The plastic ones literally fall/creep out of my ears… without even moving (losing a lot of sound/volume in the process)

Different strokes.

I'm the opposite, the rubber ones are annoying and give me headaches. Love the open ear feel.

> I cannot stand to wear the non-pro airpods

> The Pros, completely different story

You think this is accidental?

Yes. That's alot of battery life for in-ears of that size. Also you add hours more in a 10 min charge from the case. If you have to wear headphones for more than 5 hours straight without a few min break, you have other issues than th technology.

yeah I loved the tap controls. Would be nice to have both available. My guess is that for many people the "tap" wasn't as accurate as apple would like it to be as I had heard lots of complaints about that not working for people when I was available.

The Dyson toothbrush seems to think … different

Confusing enough that I see ads from major retailers mixing it up (or maybe it's on purpose?) listing "Airpods Pro 4" only to click the link and see it's the Airpods 4.

Same here. And I was seriously impressed with how much noise cancelling the v4 can do. I will be seriously impressed again if the v5 is as much better as they claim.

I have searched far and wide and have found nothing. I haven't even found a basic-functionality wired earbud that matches the AirPods frequency reproduction.

Indeed not Apple specific.

That's also why there are different designs, e.g. in ear, over ear, open over ear, bone conduction, and technologies, e.g. noise cancelling, active noise cancelling, non voice filtering.

Typically there are visuals though, e.g. crossing lights for pedestrian, so the risk from the lack of hearing in a city is quite low IMHO.

FWIW in Belgium you can even legally ride a bike with earphones, which shows the risk is estimated to be very low.

People drive cars every day, isolated in a box with windows rolled up, playing music or radio, not being able to hear what's going on around them. So I don't buy the safety argument of noise canceling headphones being dangerous.

>In a multiple of ways: you become disconnected from nature and closed off to environments

I live in a city. Nature for me means the squealing breaks of cars and trucks + people trying to get my attention so I'll take their religious flyer. No thanks.

AirPods and other ANC earphones have been around for ages, nothing new.

Listening to music while out and about doesn't equate to "completely oblivious".

I've seen people with no earbuds be completely oblivious and almost walk into traffic...

Apples, oranges. Those Devialet look interesting, but aren't "open ear" (they're plugs) and cost twice as much. edit: almost four times as much.

Do they pair with Apple devices as easily? If I lose them, can I find them with Find My? Can I use them as hearing aids?

how can you say that without having tried both?

source? have you tried airpods 5?

They don’t look open ear.

The AirPods 4 has an ANC option which is weaker than the Pro; this new version just has it baseline and cheaper (and better).

Why are you comparing in-ear earbuds to over-ear headphones?

The battery on the AirPods is 10 times smaller. So you would have to replace it 10 times to break even.

why would I want a replaceable battery? My airpods have been working fine for 6 years now. Isn't THAT better for the environment?

Those are some weird looking in ear earphones

What % of people replace a battery over the lifespan of an item? Does the increased complexity and size of the unit make up for the slightly longer lifespan? What makes it "better" for the environment, exactly when it all ends up in a landfill after 5 years anyway?

Like this woman is some train station in Mexico and after getting an invitation in Spanish to some music event she doesn't even try to say "Gracias".

It was Union Station in Los Angeles, one of the busiest and most iconic train stations in the country.

They're so expensive you won't be buying many and that's great for the environment.

We won't sell you phone with the charger because of... Reasons... I mean...

Environment

I suspect the story is that next year when the AirPods Pro 4s come out it'll be more clear.

Plus fewer distractions.

$49.99 a month, up to six family members (uses previous family sharing system), unlimited devices (with some carve outs for Vision Pro). Limit of six total claims a year seems low until you realize that's every 60 days.

Available starting September 14th, 2026.

They’re currently embroiled in a technology theft lawsuit.

Don’t expect it any time soon.

What's a good naming convention? I draw a pretty big distinction between earbuds that seal and earbuds that just sit in front of my ear canal. I have AirPods Pro for when I really need isolation, and regular AirPods for when I need hours of comfortable wearing. "Open-ear earbuds" would make sense to me.

On Hacker News it's generally good form to read the article before making an informed comment.

It’s a press release. Press releases are ads.

> Article reads like an ad.

You've mistaken a press release for an article. This is Apple's own site and announcement of Apple's own product. Of course it's an ad.

It is an ad...

My lone claim to fame, now harder to track down because Twitter decided my lack of activity was somehow suspicious and killed my account, was a brief exchange with Phil Schiller about pluralization of Apple devices.

> One need never pluralize Apple product names. Ex: Mr. Evans used two iPad Pro devices.

https://www.iphoneantidote.com/blog/dont-pluralize/

I would never have considered 5's. Are you implying the five is in possession of something?

The first version was "Apple AirPods", there's two of them so it makes sense.

> overengineered sound makers that breaks the moment you drop them.

Which ones are those? I've owned a couple of generations of airpods and dropped them probably hundreds of times (both in the case and out of it) and it has never had any detectable effect on their appearance or functionality. I even had a pair go through the wash and they still mostly worked afterwards (only issue was that the ANC performance was worse and slightly weird).

I don't usually defend Apple products, but my AirPods Pro 2nd gen have been rock solid and taken insane abuse. I use them working on cars, runs, hiking, rain, shine, sauna. I drop them. They land in puddles. They smack concrete every couple of months. Sample size 1, but they are probably one of my favorite accessories and things I lug around with me. I use them a lot and if not love /really/ like them and nothing else has come close to the frictionless experience of them.

Although that may be in part due to vendor lock in and not sharing some of their connection handling API / tech.

> Unlike these overengineered sound makers that breaks the moment you drop them.

You’d do your case favours by not exaggerating. My AirPods have proven perfectly rugged, I’ve dropped them plenty of times.

Dunno man, I bought a cheap set once and they were abysmal, I hated them so much I just destroyed them in a rage when they started malfunctioning yet again. I got AirPods and haven’t looked back, they just work all the time. Granted I’ve never dropped them :)