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I don't think the vibe significantly shifted in a positive way. It seemed like it was going to with Ternus' opening statements, but then it was back to the same vibe. Hard to put into words, but kind of a droning boring safe microsoft-y vibe. Craig Federighi brought more energy for his segment but he sounded almost sarcastic at times. John Srouji is a breath of fresh air. I liked Dr. Desai's vibe in the health section more than the average segment.

A real vibe shift might not even be possible if they don't bring back in-person live presentations. Can't believe they flew all these people in to play them a video. Though seeing how John Ternus' hands were shaking during his demo with ishowspeed, I don't know if they have it in them to go back to live presentations.

And what was the surprise in "surprise and shine" anyway? The name of it?

I'd wait before believing no crease. My Z Fold 8 had basically no crease for the first week, after it has a slight crease that hasn't seemed to get any worse in the 3 weeks since. It's only noticeable in dark room with dramatic down lighting at certain angles, or when display is off, but it IS there. There has been some talk of Samsung actually having a better anti-crease solution than they opted to include in the z fold 8. Apparently their display division and mobile division are pretty separate and mobile only gets what they are willing to "pay for". It's possible apple ponied up for the better tech where Samsung mobile did not this year. But I'd still want to wait until people have had the thing for a few weeks and put it through it's paces before I believe any "no crease" claims.

> There is no crease at all!

Like first reply he literally says

> There is sorta one at some slight angles but basically no crease

And someone replied with a picture of it showing the crease.

It's probably fine and you don't notice it during use, but it's not some magic creaseless breakthrough.

The crease appears after months of use on other phones, so I'm curious what it would look like after a little bit of wear.

At $2000, I'm not going to be an early adopter this time around. I'm concerned about screen crease/debris ingress, and I'll want to see user reports on how useful it ends up being.

That said, I'm much more intrigued than I expected to be, to the point that I found myself thinking "maybe ...". Kudos to the team. The fold/unfold transitions are really slick, and I like what they've done with the extra side space.

Me and my friends were naively hoping Ternus would switch back to the Jobs era format, or at least dial down from today’s.

We all hate the over acted, over produced keynote format of today

Disagree on it looking great. It doesn't look like an Apple product. It looks geeky and clumsy. Which I personally don't mind, but absolutely not the sleek one is used to from Apple.

Of course there is a crease

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1wbx1wo/there_is_a_cr...

To be fair, my Fold 8 didn't have crease either when new month ago. Now the crease is increasing when most of the use is on the cover screen. I notice that when I open the fold, there is noticeable crease but if I read or watch something for longer time, the crease levels and goes more invisible.

This Reddit thread shows a slight “bend”[1]. I’m distinguishing between an intentional allowance for bending vs a deformation that shows up later due to folding. But this is obviously splitting hairs because whatever we want to call it, the thing people don’t like about folding phones is the bend in the display where the fold occurs. And it looks like the Duo has that. Maybe the optical and technical tricks Apple has thrown at the problem will make the slight bend so inconspicuous as to be a non-issue. To me, telling that story is more impressive than claiming it doesn’t exist.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/URdlaUpIrH

Agreed. I am excited to see what changes appear. I did enjoy the "One more thing" + smirk bit too.

No crease at all! Sure. [1] [1] https://shorturl.at/JLmNa

I loved the handoff that Tim did at the beginning. It was touching

There is still crease, noticeable in dark scene.

Basically Apple does what Chinese has done so far, 3d print a buffer to ease the crease. Oppo find n5, afaict, is the first one to do that.

> There is no crease at all!

Put down the kool aid mate.

https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/1wc3ei0/...

Personally I think it looks both incredibly ugly and also really non ergonomic.

I can’t see it being comfortable to hold and type on at all.

I predict the form factor will be gone within two years.

It was even more American over the top Marketing which really doesn't work well in the rest of world.

We laughed out loud when they claimed "the controls on the side let you celebrate your pictures on your lockscreen more"

Yea it's nice we can put whatever picture on a phone's lockscreen. It really is. Every phone does that.

Not once have I CELEBRATED my picture tho.

Open a bottle of champagne anyone?

> I think the Duo looks great.

I could not disagree more.

There are 3 ways to fold a phone:

1) The trifold: A phone that folds out into a tablet. (e.g. https://consumer.huawei.com/my/phones/mate-xt-ultimate-desig...)

2) The clam shell: a phone that folds down into a more compact form. (e.g. https://www.jbhifi.com.au/products/samsung-galaxy-z-flip8-5g...)

3) The book: an awkwardly squashed phone that folds out into two awkwardly squashed phones taped together. (e.g. https://news.microsoft.com/surfaceduo/)

The trifold fits in your pocket.

The clamshell fits in small pockets (making it popular for women).

The book in a pocket is just uncomfortable (assuming it fits in at all).

They looked at all the folding phone formats and went with the worst possible one: the one that you can't fit in your pocket comfortably.

Further more, they looked at the worst book fold and decided to associate themselves with it by stealing its name, The S̶u̶r̶f̶a̶c̶e̶ Apple Duo: https://news.microsoft.com/surfaceduo/

--------------------

Apple releasing this is exactly what it looks like when there's no one helming the wheel.

100%. It was so funny to see how for years, everyone on HN was harping on about how well a smaller iPhone would sell. Then Apple finally released the iPhone mini and nobody was buying it, so they had to kill it after a couple of iterations.

Basically, try to do the opposite of what HN is saying and you might just create a successful product.

If we’re talking about unattainable dreams, I want a scroll rather than a folding phone - it’d be much better than a me-too form factor like this.

Don’t expect this to sell well - too big for trouser pockets and not enough advantages to the form factor, plus inevitably wear will make it either unprofitable for Apple or an expensive mistake for the purchaser.

The price point also outs it squarely in the luxury end of the market rather than mass-market.

Exactly. Obviously Apple did the research on this.

Personally I still like the "flip" style fold (normal phone size that folds into a smaller square). The lack of durability for the inner screen seems like less of an issue if it's protected inside (while folded). This seems like it really incentivises leaving it unfolded except for pocket use

Being average person is like winning lottery. Everyone is making products for you.

"Bring back the headphone jack, it's what everybody wants and will sell squillions!"

I mean, they have a return policy. Give it a try! It could be fun.

How many years did you keep your Nokia 3310 when smart phones were released

Contrary to popular belief, Apple did not kill the mini because iphone 13 mini sales were poor. And they were poor.

Apple killed it because Mini 14s are illegal in Europe. There are tons in the US though.

I was ready to switch to a foldable. Then they said there is no FaceId and that idea went out of the window. I sure hope they will include it in later versions.

As a dev who regularly works on apps for both platforms, I think one of the main causes for poor support for form factors beyond a standard smartphone on Android boils down to Google refusing to give developers fully fleshed out APIs to support said form factors.

Instead, they just hand you some poorly documented loose parts in a box and tell you, “good luck” and you’re on your own to fill the gaps. Compose is a little better about giving the tools you need than the preceding Android Framework, but it’s still much more “assembly required” and “batteries not included” than the UIKit+SwiftUI world is.

Many iOS apps built using system components will behave 90%+ correctly on the Duo by just compiling against the iOS 27.1 SDK because there are well supported methods of doing things that Apple can leverage to reduce dev work. In contrast, on Android there's 10 ways of doing anything none of which get full-throated support (on top of all the other ways devs invent), and so any time it gains support for a new form factor almost nothing is automatic and it all falls on the devs’ shoulders.

It would depend on the sales volume. For a long time the iPad has been available and many developers simply are content to have a stretched version of their iPhone app on their iPad, because the sales volume isn’t sufficient. If foldable phones sell like iPads, this could very well happen to them too.

> "A large fraction of the flaws in software development are due to programmers not fully understanding all the possible states their code may execute in."

This is a quote from John Carmack and should sit over every developers monitor. At the same time, OS designers should be doing everything in their power to reduce the number of states a developer has to think about.

I don't want to be pessimistic, but I can see a single app now showing two different feeds to doomscroll.

My immediate thought seeing this design was how expensive this is going to be for companies to get their existing apps to look good on this thing.

> I'm excited that the Duo will get developers to actually design apps for foldables.

For Apple foldables yes. Not Android.

Same here. I ditched the google pixel fold after a year because the hardware had some issues, also tbh I prefer the iOS ecosystem. I’m so glad this is coming out.

Developers will design apps for Apple's foldables.

> a better use of the screen space is around the corner

I see what you did there :)

> As a recent Android foldable phone owner (Google Pixel)

"There are dozens of us!" (not me though, I wouldn't buy a Pixel foldable)

Many people (possibly a majority) use their phone for most of their computing, and perhaps a tablet to stream movies/tv. They use a laptop or desktop for work only, and see those as frustrating and clunky devices. There could be a lot of demand for "phone, but with a tablet screen when I want to watch Netflix" from the segment of the population that has zero overlap with people commenting on a tech forum.

> If I needed that screen real estate, I'd be reaching for my laptop.

Which you commonly have in your pocket? I have a GPD pocket 4 and love me some portable laptops, but I do sorta hope we get somewhere with foldables to where I'm happy just breaking out an arc mouse and small keyboard and treating that as the computer.

We're obviously not, and i'm probably not anywhere near willing to shell out the cash for this, but "the tool you have" and all that.

I commute by train. I would never watch a tv show on a phone but watched plenty on my iPad. If the big screen gives you an actual access to “desktop” web, then suddenly more web starts working (the switch in Safari is perfectly useless)

Tmux does not work that well on a tiny screen, and I use it a lot.

I think the current iteration of foldables is still too bulky for me. But I can see how it'd be cool to have a large screen while the device still fits in my pocket.

Teams/Zoom calls when not on desk. iPhone Max screen is just a bit too small when people are sharing their screen.

> If I needed that screen real estate, I'd be reaching for my laptop.

It is increasingly common for people to have no laptop or any computing device other than their smartphone, smartwatch, and/or game console. I know very few people who have a non-work computer anymore.

Then don’t buy it.

Lease for $58/mo .. $1392 over lease life

>What is the appeal?

Twice the screen size in your pocket without having to get special pants.

I never thought I'd defend apple, but that was the arguments people (myself including) were making about iPads. So I wouldn't presume this won't find a public, starting with the apple fans.

I find the form factor repulsive though, doesn't fit comfortably in a pocket and seems pretty thick. Screen durability is described as "we have premium material" and an "scratch resistant" coating, but no mention of free screen replacements like samsung is doing ; so I assume you'll have to shelve off half the price of the device every year for a new screen. I think this might not be a great device.

So I guess I agree with you

I want this, this could legitimately replace my laptop. I never liked the samsung fold since the form factor was a bit too ehh. Apple did something right here.

It's not the worst status symbol. It's useful.

Sir, I’m 40 and I’m already at the stage of not wanting to do any programming. I used to love this stuff. But after watching all my favourite companies and CEOs turn to greedy villains… I’m just done. How do I survive another 35 years doing this stuff?

My dad is 87 and I'm seriously thinking about buying him one of these. He wants a phone that will fit in his pocket, but his vision isn't great so he has the text size bumped up pretty high. Right now he's using an iPhone 15. Large text size on a small-form-factor phone, it turns out, makes a fair number of apps nearly unusable. For example, it's super common to see a dialog box pop up where the "OK" button is pushed off the bottom of the screen by the text, leaving you with no way to dismiss it. I frequently get tech-support calls from him that end up boiling down to that problem, and it makes using apps a pretty frustrating experience for him.

A device that fits in his pocket and that he can still hold in one hand when he's using it as a phone, but that has enough screen real estate to run apps in large-print mode without constantly breaking UI designs, would meaningfully improve his life.

Its a 2200$ device which does the same thing as a 500$ tablet or any other option.

If people would at least use the power they buy... :|

Hey other Mark Watson :)

You all laugh but yeah your brain is going to directly interface with some small portable client hooked up to the internet. Will probably just be integrated with the microchip in your head.

If Apple continues like that, in 10 years it won’t exist

How about open and rotate for 1.4x zoom?

in 10 years any phone should be able to wirelessly stream it to any monitor / tv and plenty of those will be everywhere

I take it this is a joke? I am in my 50s and don’t see myself staring at screens for too long, let alone coding.

Edit: I don’t know of anyone 75 still coding outside of retired professors here and there. I am not trying to be an ageist. I just don’t think I will be physically capable when I am 75.

It seems like it would be really useful for a frequent traveler/commuter, to be able to watch something on a flight/bus ride. I would definitely consider it if I were in that demographic

Just like people complaining about "phablets" a decade ago right? "more bulky than a phone, smaller than a tablet"?

Clamshell phones were essentially the default design 2 decades ago and people have been talking about folding phones ever since, really. Folding is a unique way to overcome the ever present size issues/comments; however, it looks like the manufacturers have taken an alternate approach and used folding to double the size rather than halve it.

Mmm I have had two foldables .. 3 years daily usage ... and they're great phones and great tablets.

So, ymmv.

It's barely worse phone, and it's a much better table. My argument for the tablet is that if it was a separate device I would basically never use it because it's inconvenient.

I had one and I can’t wait to but the iphone fold. I think you’re lacking imagination if you don’t think this is the future

theyre actually quite nice, and the added redudancy that you still have a perfectly working phone when one of the screens breaks is great.

the phone-ness is exactly the same, but i dont think anyone actually needs a full tablet, but an unfolded screen is just right for say, reading a diff on the bus.

I was much more impressed by the phone->tablet fold than i was expecting to be.

In my house, even the iPad hasn't been touched in weeks. I frankly don't see how tablets even have all that much appeal beyond little kids or maybe retail spaces. Don't really understand the utility of a convertible device.

I don't know, their whole product announcements since they went the way of the pre-recorded ones seem like exactly the type of company they would smash in their 1984 commercial. Feels over-produced-airburshed-perfectly-rendered-ai-generated souless evil corporation trying to pretend to be good, completely disconnected from the real world, but that's just me, and I am deeply into their ecosystem.

I agree. The demos were great. They really showed off how things you already do today are "better" on two screens. This is in contrast to the Vision Pro where the demos were of things that were neat but I can't see myself needing (watching 3D captures, watching a big virtual cinema screen).

I think this will be a hit, but the $2k is a bit much for me to even consider getting one. Obviously they'll likely drop that price over time.

Is it really the first generation though? The screen is obviously 1st gen for Apple, but you'd think the rest of it is not: OS, battery, camera.

I find it sad that they're doing it all pre-recorded.

The Apple Vision Pro was a rare early entry into a field. Usually they wait until the technology is established and the userbase is just starting to take off, as is currently the case with folding phone displays.

Samsung has already worked out the major kinks for folding displays, over dozens of products used by multiple phone manufacturers including themselves, and Android has worked out how to handle the various use cases between the outer screen and inner screen, when closed, open, or partially open, so Apple can pull from the current state of the art and launch with a more fully developed product, as they usually did before the Apple Vision Pro.

They're still as cringe as they've been for years; with fake hand movements and marketing-pilled bs postures.

I think it's clear that Apple has recognized that their target markets don't care to have useful computers. Just look way back to when Steve Jobs was still alive and he was talking about how "PCs are going to be like trucks. Fewer people will need them. And this is going to make some people uneasy."

They could certainly add features to make them more like general purpose computers, but there's a bit of product development and engineering "tax" they'd have to pay over time to maintain that aspect. Much easier from a product development standpoint to create products that provide a walled-garden experience, especially if that's what most customers want.

Globally, mobile+tablet crossed 50% of web traffic in October 2016 (51.3% vs. desktop's 48.7%) [0]. For the world minus HN, we’re entering the second decade of phones being useful computers for the most common definition of useful.

[0](https://gs.statcounter.com/press/mobile-and-tablet-internet-...)

“Useful computer” is subjective. It seems to be difficult for HN users to imagine a device that doesn’t have a terminal for example, but the overwhelming majority of users simply do not care. Many of them manage just fine with a smartphone as their primary (if not their only) computer, so clearly they are useful enough.

Samsung dex really excited me when I tried it, but it still had a little ways to go. I am shocked it's not a bigger priority.

The Macbook neo has a Phone chip. And Android now integrates the Linux terminal (well, for compatible chips). Valve is also trying to put gaming on ARM chips. So I'd say we're starting to blur the lines between phones and PCs. Personally, owning a samsung phone, I'm looking for a neat option to leverage my powerful chip and work on it on trips, but so far I find the options to do so too expensive considering how much money I already put into my phone (VR glasses, Lapdocks, external monitor/keyboard...)

Android is getting close, with Google adding desktop support akin to Samsung's Dex when the phone is connected to a dock.

Apple has had a patent[1] for like a decade at this point which involved placing an iPhone into a slot on a laptop so it could be used in a laptop form, with the phone itself serving as the touchpad.

[1]: https://www.tomsguide.com/news/apple-patents-device-that-doc...

Edit to add: the phone itself is intended to be the main processing unit, the “laptop” is just a screen and keyboard.

At this point I don't even really need a phone. Nobody makes calls anymore and I can use my watch for 911 calls.

What I need is a more portable iPad. But that would cannibalize iPhone sales.

I have a Chromebook with an ~11 inch screen. It’s basically the minimum size where a keyboard is still useable. I like it a lot, but it’s actually too big when I want to use it as a tablet.

I think this is the tension. Or maybe we just need to master one handed keyboards.

That seems to be entirely the purpose of this device. Instead of just a larger display, it's meant to provide a "second monitor" for multitasking or more context.

With terminal emulators, tailscale, local and remote agents, there's never been so much computing capability accessible from your pocket before.

Have you seen how the average person uses their phone?

You want what, a terminal that you type on w/an onscreen keyboard?

You can get something quite useable these days by plugging a pixel into a USB dock with a monitor and a keyboard + mouse

It's easier to make an existing thing better. But far harder to come up with a new idea.

abuse over a monopoly is the reason. probably you already knew that though?

if they made it a useful computer, they couldnt charge 30% of revenue to their app store customers

What do you want to do on your iPhone that you can't do now?

How are you gonna do mandatory age verification on a full fledged computer?

Apple's lack of vision and fear of innovation. Jobs is gone. We're back to 90s Apple. Dumb ideas become dumb products, and no one has the balls to say, No.

do you not consider your phone a "useful computer"?

Artificial limitations open many new avenues for new and exciting revenue streams.

The moment apple ship MacOS on their iPads, sales for their macbooks will all but collapse.

This is the biggest disappointment, imagine running a full blown "Ubuntu Touch" that gives you the freedom of Linux with full root access. This is the biggest failure of legislation in the 21st century so far that has enabled a strict Android/iOS duopoly.

I sincerely hope one day we can free these hardware devices from the shakles of their software and run anything that's possible.

Until such a time iOS devices are strictly off limits until at least a grapheneOS can run iOS at a minimum.

iPhone Pros have sported an always-on display for years now. It uses the OLED display at low brightness and refresh rates to preserve battery life while showing you the time etc. So I'm guessing this is using that same tech.

This feature is well thought out in terms of battery use, because nobody is going to ever use their phone as a "bedtime clock"

Work smarter, not harder

> I worry this will suffer from the same lack of developer interest as the AVP did

Pretty sure that developer interest is not to be a problem. The Duo will sell more units in a month (or less) than every AVP ever sold.

Apple told developers in June at WWDC to not assume fixed screen sizes. Well-written apps will work on any screen size thanks to Apple's APIs.

Some apps will need to be tweaked to take advantage of some Duo features no doubt, but I suspect that's not going to be a deal breaker.

I’m in the exact same situation. Been upgrading every year for a long time (via the Upgrade Programme, making doing so more or less “free”). I was absolutely jazzed they finally did an orange phone, and this is the first year in a while that…I just don’t care. The Duo is far more expensive than I could ever entertain (plus buying a first-gen Apple product has never been a good idea), and there is quite literally nothing in the 18 Pro that makes me want to upgrade.

I may be swayed by a second gen Air in the spring, as I would like a lighter phone that feels less of an imposition in my pocket and my life in general. But it almost certainly won’t have the zoom camera, which has unexpectedly become one of my favourite and most used features of the 17 Pro. Why the two-camera phones all come with the ultrawide instead of the telephoto is baffling to me. Perhaps I’m an anomaly, but I never use the ultrawide lens.

Just checked the price in my home country (Brazil) and it's fantastic: the Duo starts at BRL 21999, which is roughly USD 4300.

> I worry this will suffer from the same lack of developer interest as the AVP did

Apple can force iOS devs to do whatever they want. It may be basic support, but Apple devs will do whatever Apple tells them to do.

You could do the leasing route if you upgrade every year. Might pinch less.

Wait for 2nd gen, always

I don’t think it’ll face the developer interest problem. Devs go where the money is and consumers seem to love foldables.

I like that blue though.

It's high, but Apple's financing arm has it at $84/month, which is a bit more stomachable if you really want it.

I don't know, $1999 seems almost kinda reasonable considering how much an iPhone Pro costs and how utterly fucked the current memory prices are.

To get close to the same functionality as the Duo, you'd buy an iPhone 18 Pro ($1199) plus an iPad mini ($599); that gets you to $1,798. If you want more storage than the entry level iPhone 18 Pro or iPad mini, you're going to surpass $2000 pretty quickly.

I feel like we're not talking about this too much. This phone-o-tablet is the same price as base Macbook Pro. Let me reiterate: a foldable phone costs as much as Pro line computer. This is just crazy

For me, the iPhone is the primary device I unlock and use in short burst 10's of times throughout the day.

The iPad (Mini) is something I use more deliberately, like twice per day to read the newspaper and to watch some video.

For me the Duo seems like you're suffering a lot for the first use case, just to make the second use case possible.

I think I'll stick with separate devices.

> After a while, I think dust would inevitably get in the hinges and wouldn't fold flat. I've seen demos in stores of newer gen Samsung foldable phones and it looks like those wouldn't fold flat

For your first point, the iPhone duo is rated IP 68 Dust and Water protection. Literally none of Samsung's book foldables so far have achieved this IP rating.

I trust Apple to do better here; for example, after about ten years, no one has caught up to Face ID yet.

This man has been dead for nearly 15 years, just let him be. It's time to move on.

This. He would have never approved a foldable phone, the iPhone Air, or the Vision Pro. Apple is back to throwing shit at the wall like they were in the 90s. Directionless. Visionless.

The fact that it works with the pencil is a huge selling point for me. I wasn't really interested in a folding iPhone, but having something I can write on without also needing to carry an extra device or pocket notebook is really cool.

It was useful for paper because it helped save time in cutting, folding, printing etc. None of that matters for a phone.

This is such a non issue given that iOS developers already have so many resolutions to test.

I always forget the US doesn't use A4 etc. (or do you?)

The way this comment was going I was pleasantly surprised to see that the iPhone Duo adhered to the ISO standard.

But it's not really the same aspect ratio, is it?

Because one is used predominantly vertically, and the other horizontally.

As long as there's this landscape vs portrait difference, how does the aspect ratio similarity actually help?

I really assumed the point of this was going to be to complain about how no phone/phone cases are exactly the same... which is an absolute scourge on society that I assume is continued by Apple here.

Too wide to fit in anyone's pocket, but the ratio is the sine of 45 degrees! Seems like a very non-Apple thing to do, honestly. My jeans don't care about math.

This aspect ratio is sqrt(2) - 1.4142...

It is funny to calculate it from proportions of A3 and A4 formats.

That's not far off the 4:3 of the Samsung Z fold 8. Around 4.24:3.

People mythologising Apple design will never get old

There are compromises to any proportion decision. A tall rectangle is much more natural to hold than a fat rectangle, especially at the size of this device. The user also has to relearn the location of on screen buttons that have always had a consistent location.

Take a sheet of A4 paper. Fold it in half. Fold it in half again. That’s about the size of the Duo inner screen (a little larger actually, A6 is about 13% smaller than the Duo screen).

Surely the next version will unfold twice to reach A3 size

You mean all two states?

But what's the point?

sounds useless and ridiculous

I mean, I wouldn't hate it if they got into cars

The most important part of a foldable is the screen and they are designed and made by Samsung, so hard to come up with something Samsung couldn't have done in their own phone.

This is how Apple works, it’s weird people complain about it at this point. It’s extremely successful

It's an iPhone with a foldable screen made by Samsung.

So it's hard to inovate here.

You dont seem to understand why people buy the most expensive phones. Most of the time (especially outside tech circles) its a show of wealth.

In a lot of ways the iphone has always been the Achilles Heel of the ultra wealthy, no matter how many billions you had, you could never do fancier than a 1500 buck iphone. Apple IMO is just trying to capitalize on this phenomenon and capture the pretentious luxury market. Anecdotally the galaxy fold did really well with the obnoxiously rich circles in my country, people who previously all had iphones. So they kinda have to do it as well now.

IOS27 has a killer feature that will boost sales for duo. Iphone handoff. Don't underestimate how deep apple customers wallets are. You now can have multiple iPhones. A pro that you use day to day, an Air that you use when you go to the gym and a duo to use when at home. Now the crease lasts longer because you are not using it 24/7, you spread wear across multiple devices and pump the apple sales.

I'm a 12/13 mini on my second refurbished 13 and a new battery. This is the first iPhone I've considered. Even so, the price is... impressive.

I want a screen that my thumb can reach from top to bottom without stretching or doing weird half-screen swipes to get at.

Also weird that they've gone back to touch ID instead of face ID to open/unlock.

But I'll definitely be looking at it.

If the fold make up 4% of sales, but with 2x or more margin vs mini, it might be worth it for them. Seems like a product that MIGHT survive due to that.

I think fold phones are not at least for most OEM manufacturers the bedrock of their business whereas the Mini was supposed to perform at least as well as the mainstay iPhones cause it did not do much beyond being a percentage smaller.

I on the other hand hope they kill the slim iPhone and/or bring back the Plus cause the 16 Plus was a solid deal.

4%-6% of iPhone sales, but not of profits.

larger screen possibly leads to more hours of usage per day, more ad-surfaces, more software and services revenue per user per year.

They will stick with this product for a long time. Asia is the biggest market in the world for these kinds of devices.

They can possibly justify the lower sales volume if the margins are much higher.

Was the 4-6% figure officially confirmed or just speculation?

Lots of people in non-tech jobs are dropping their laptop/desktop for their phone for all work-related tasks. They love having more screen real estate, plus their company pays for the premium.

Basically Apple had Samsung et al validate the use case for a flip phone before executing their move. The others proved there is a market for this, hence Apple jumped on the bandwagon.

This is not like the iPhone mini, where they were competing with both lower end phone companies, and their own older refurb models. This one's all about ostentation.

We have both now on the phone. For those that don't like the nano-texture inner dualscreen they can just only use the outer glossy one

I'm a (Samsung) Fold user. They're great - a year in I never, or rarely if ever see the minute crease, and ditto here with Apple. The reality is that ~70% of the time I want a small screen. It's perfect (if thick due to the fold). It opens to "larger" (i.e 8 inches) which is great - compared to what I had before (6.9").

I'm actually hoping that this will force Samsung to solve their silly lockscreen choices, and the fact that it needs to be "configured" to be useful, because it's separate (Multilock - I'm talking to you). Honestly, I would happily take even bigger. The extra real estate when you want it is great. But it needs to hit tablet(ish) sizes. We're just in early days.

it's the most expensive iPhone. People want to flex their wealth. Foldable phones usually replace phones, not tablets.

JerryRigEverything drives me absolutely nuts as someone that works in product design. His tests have zero basis in reality and don't actually test whether a product will survive daily use. I wouldn't take anything from his videos as an indication of whether a device is fragile.

new foldables are surprisingly strong along the spine. Not impossible to snap or damage but would support being accidentally sat on without it being catastrophic, for example.

In my location I can order the Z Fold 8 for cheaper than the 18 Pro Max, and I can see in the price history that it has also been available for cheaper than the regular 18 Pro.

If I wouldn't at the moment focus on developing iOS apps, the Z Fold 8 would be very tempting.

Because for a lot (most?) people their iPhone is their primary and only personal computer. I also want a smaller phone. I bet Apple designers would love to sell you a smaller phone. They've certainly tried with my beloved and retired iPhone mini and the same size but thinner iPhone air. But the market keeps rejecting it because it's not just a portable companion to some other computer, it is the computer. If you're doing all your work on it then you need more real estate. Aging populations across the globe probably need more screen real estate also for bigger text.

Apple Watch with cellular is effectively iPhone mini. There are 3d printable cases to make it into a bar phone.

https://makerworld.com/en/models/1022751-watch-phone#profile...

One day the stockpiles of iPhone 13 minis will deplete to the point where making new products in that form factor is economically viable.

Until then, off to eBay we go. There are more than enough sitting around completely unused. You aren't missing out on much with 5 iPhone generations these days.

I really deeply wish they had attempted a profile that was 64mm wide folded and double unfolded. Height is less important.

The whole advantage of having any screen at all when folded is something quick to access and *one handable*. Just looking at the Duo, it appears too wide for that by a large amount.

If I’m forced to two hand the thing I’ll just get a phablet: no folding mechanism, no unfolding step before using properly, no gigantic price hike (guessing).

I haven’t seen anyone mention this yet, but… other than the Duo, the iPhones have been the same size since the iPhone X? Obviously not counting the Max/Plus/Mini lines, but the standard ones have had 6”-ish screens for almost a decade now (and the screen itself has increased in size, but that’s because they decreased the bezels), so they’ve hardly made a new phone that is larger than the one before since then.

Personally, I quite like the size of the standard iPhones, fits in my pocket, can use it one handed well enough, and the display is big enough to comfortably view content. I have quite small hands though and I can see how someone bigger than me would like the size of the Pro Max line.

Also this size clearly works, because basically all phones now are this exact same size give or take a few mm.

> Why do they insist on every new phone being bigger than the phones before them?

Because the common user for some strange reason has come to prefer phablets to mobile phones.

I gather that for many people, their smartphone is their only computing device. Doesn't have much appeal for me, but if that was the case, I could see that nudging people towards bigger devices, even if it makes them less practical as phones you carry around / try to grasp with one hand.

A lot of people who are "mobile-only" prefer larger phones.

> But I have big hands, and I can't use my iphone 17 now without two hands.

I've never been able to use a smart phone with one hand, even an original iphone. So this is probably a really niche complaint that you and Shaq have.

Your question reminds me of this hilarious image after the ipad was released: https://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/iboard-i...

It's battery life.

I was an iPhone 13 mini user for the last few years. I would buy a refurbished one off Amazon whenever my current one broke. I really prefer the smaller screen size.

Recently, I broke my phone again and my wife happened to have a larger iPhone laying around unused (through some accident of e-commerce). I felt weird buying a new phone when we had a perfectly good one laying around, so I decided to give it a shot.

I don't watch any video on my phone and most of my screentime is Kindle and Safari. My screentime is only like 2-3hrs per day. And yet, I still found myself chronically running out of batteries on the 13 mini. I actually now would prefer to keep my new annoyingly large 16e just to not have the battery anxiety.

(A hidden assumption in the above is that larger screens make more room for battery.)

Who wants bigger phones: Tens of millions in higher end market.

Who wants smaller phones: Tens of thousands in lower end market.

As an average height woman with average hands, I want 1) an Apple + Levi's collaboration to put iPad Mini sized pockets in women's jeans 2) a phone slightly smaller than the SE so I can reach the furthest corner with my thumb

I'm on an iPhone 13 mini and got the battery replaced this year - hoping to get another three years out of it.

I specifically have an iPhone SE for this reason. I should be able to reach the upper right corner with one hand.

The data shows that people want to consume video content on their phones So bigger screens are better

That is it. Nothing else.

The phone that grabs most attention always wins. Consumers don't do multi-year procurement processes unlike government agencies selecting a device - they literally gravitate towards bright light and pick up the device on the demo stand. So there's always going to be an arms race of more bigger and ever more glittery phones. That is, until a massive disruption like a flip-phone-to-smartphone transition comes and all those obnoxious peacocks gets instantly wiped out and doves come filling in the void.

It’s crazy that the reason we can’t have a comfortable-to-hold one is that a product that only sells 5 or 10 million units a year isn’t worth their time.

Nobody bought the hp veer. Small phones stopped being valuable when phones got good enough to be the only screen a layman would see in a single day. It's now a game of 'movie theater in your pocket.' For better or for worse.

Even Samsung offers their 'smaller than a normal phone unfolds to a normal phone' as secondary to the flagship fold. The Flip, to me, is almost marketed as a kid's phone for your teenager.

Yeah I really miss the mini :(

I went out of my way to make sure I found a "new" iPhone 13 mini for my corporate BYOD (needed for on-call, and I hate the cert they push so there's no way I'd use my personal phone...)

The only corporate phones they offered were HUGE, being required to carry 2 phones is enough of an annoyance already, but two full-sized phones is a nightmare!

> Why do they insist on every new phone being bigger than the phones before them?

Because every time, they want it to be the next big thing.

For me it's fitting the damn thing in my pocket. And unfortunately, width is the main limiter there, making this far WORSE than any other, despite the smaller screen. I can't imagine what this thing would do to your jeans. Apple needs to sell tiny man satchels with this thing.

I like bigger phones. Being over 50, my eyesight is crap and I need a bigger screen. Yeah, I miss one handed operation, but I already accepted that loss years ago. This will be the year I finally switch to apple though(18 pro max, most likely). Bye bye Pixel.

my first iPhone was the original SE (which was essentially iPhone 4 expanded to 16:9 screen) and I'd say it was the perfect size of a phone, the reason why I opted for a larger screen even though my hands are kinda small for a man is that website and application design has completely shifted towards those large screens and small screens are unusable (and for me this has been true since 2019 when I switched to a larger screen)

it is kinda annoying, but apparently the consensus of modern design includes both lots of useless horizontal margins (lots of them just for the sake of visible rounded corners) and lots of vertical space taken by ads (iPhone 17 is actually 19.5:9, not 16:9, so ads take less vertical space on such a screen)...

and after a few months of using a larger screen I learned how to use it with one hand so it is possible - I rest my phone on 4 fingers and use thumb to interact, I only use two hands when typing (well two thumbs, but whatever)... but I still agree that the bigger the phone the more I'm worried it will fall down from my hand when operating it with one hand... the Max versions of iPhone do seem too large for me...

For the Duo to make sense at all, it basically has to fold out into a screen which is big enough that (quite often, at least) you don't feel obliged to bring along a second, larger device anyway, or to wait until you get home or back to the office to "do real computer". That means that hitting a large-enough unfolded size and a suitable unfolded aspect ratio had to be Priority 1.

> Why do they insist on every new phone being bigger than the phones before them?

Others wrote complicated or bs jokes, here is my SIMPLE tip:

It has to change otherwise people would not buy new. Size can not change randomly so it has 2 ways: decreasing and later it becomes an iwatch, and tablet becomes a phone: this is stupid because harder to increase price.

So increase it is. If you do not like it, use a watch+earpiece as a phone.

I think the iPhone 3G was peak iPhone design. It felt good to hold and was small. Later small models hand sharper edges and didn’t feel as good in the hand.

The Duo’s folded size has the same screen size as the iPhone mini, so they did go on the smaller size, rather than trying to unfold a Pro Max. It remains to be seen how the aspect ratio impacts one-handed use.

I’d take a small foldable over a large slab.

Cars also seem to get bigger with each iteration. Then the introduce new smaller models that are the same size as the earlier model..

While I agree on screen size, Apple does give a good amount of thought into application side of things - screen-layout fall into either the iPad like layout or single-column one of a regular phone. This is a bit easier for App developers. Also force-upgrade of OS is also better for those targeting iOS compared to the Android world.

Why do people keep asking the same question over and over? It's because of market demand.

I have an S24 ultra and I had an even bigger Sony xperia a while back. I have an old iPhone SE ( the one in the form factor of the iPhone 4) and find it absolutely unusable. Typing is a joke.

One of the reasons I plan on purchasing the iPhone Duo is actually because it has a smaller outer screen size than any of the other iPhones. Agreed that it is wider, but I think it can still be used one handed for most people

I also have huge hands, but a few years ago started to develop a persistent thumb sprain due “reaching” with it across my phone. This is problem that would not have happened if my phone was the size they used to be.

I've been hoping that the folded size would be roughly that of a mini, and perhaps I could be wasteful and get the foldable phone and always keep it folded. But this doesn't sound promising.

I want a smaller phone, but am burned out on android; had too many android garbage phones.

I’m leaning towards getting an old iPhone mini - but maybe someone knows a better alternative?

My z fold 8 is actually smaller than my old Xperia Z 3 Compact despite technically having a bigger screen. I would buy a device this size that doesnt unfold, even.

I don't understand this eSIM only trend. eSIM sucks for switching your service between devices or for travelling to countries where eSIM isn't a thing yet.

Yeah. A foldable that is the size of the 12 mini so that you can use it with one hand but still fold out to watch something etc.

But instead we got the largest screen before unfolding…

For a second there from the name I was really hopeful that iPhone Duo _could_ have been the replacement for my iPhone 13 Mini.

I would guess more people care about battery life and the features that more battery capacity afford than ergonomics

When you're old enough to need reading glasses, larger is better.

I'd love a tiny phone. I just can't see it anymore.

I think mini phones will have a resurgence.

They’ve made mini iPhones before and they didn’t kill. In fact, they sold poorly enough to get killed.

The Duo is also pretty heavy at 254 grams (almost 9 ounces). The Fold8 is only 201 grams.

Maybe an increasing share of their market are people like me, that is, old and blind :-D

The problem is people don't buy small phones. ASUS' Zenfone 9 and 10 were, in my opinion, basically perfect; small, someting I can actually hold in my non-athletic hands, but they didn't sell well at all, and ASUS abandoned the small phone market entirely with the Zenfone 11 Ultra.

I still think the design and size of the 6s - peak technology.

i do. i do reading and watching on my ipad mini. i can stop using that if i can get two in one device like this.

I’m still stuck on my iPhone 12 mini because I like the size

Bigger phone = bigger battery = more time between charges

I'm still on the iPhone 12 mini for this reason.

It's smaller though, until you unfold it

The size of the iPhone 16e is quite reasonable.

Did you use the iPhone mini

The iPhone 18 Pro has the exact same dimensions as the iPhone 17 Pro. It's only the new iPhone Duo that's bigger.

>Why do they insist on every new phone being bigger than the phones before them?

Wait until you get old enough to have to put readers on to use your devices like most older people do. And while I am yelling at the kids on my lawn, let me add every UI/UX person at apple - the idiotic and unnecessary choices they make for the sake of "cool design" infuriate me on a daily basis.

Presumably they are a trillion dollar company because they know the precise size of phones that will sell to the most people. Hacker News is full of the 100 people (me included!) that love small phones but the general public LOVES their gigantic horrible loud phones :)

Agree. I miss the mini. My girlfriend still has hers and is reluctant to upgrade for the inflation in size that happens every generation. Pretty soon we'll all look stupid with tablet-sized phones hanging from our necks by a lanyard.

> But I have big hands, and I can't use my iphone 17 now without two hands.

Are you a woman by any chance? I am currently typing this one handed on an iPhone 17 pro (not the pro max) and don’t consider my hands to be particularly large, for a man, but my wife has to two hand her android which is roughly the same size

>Who wants bigger phones?

If we go by history, consumers. And when Apple last offered a smaller phone, consumers did not go for it.

The reason they keep getting bigger is because Apple is rotting. When a tech company rots, it gets bloated. That bloat seeps into the products.

They released a number of small iphones over the years, and those always failed to reach meaningful sales numbers. Stated vs revealed preference I guess? People keep picking the larger model, so the models keep getting larger

totally agree with this

People do NOT want smaller phones, that should be abundantly obvious.

I don't see it as a bigger phone.

It's a new thing.

Not a phone. Not a laptop. Not an iPad.

It's an agent terminal.

Of all the ISO standards I wish the US would adopt, ISO216 would be it for me, hands down. I recently needed to buy some A6 thermal paper, a size no one seems to offer anymore. And who cares! Why would they! I can just buy an A4 sheet and cut it in half twice, no fuss.

The aspect ratio is the biggest problem with foldables.

The main reason I'd want a bigger display is for more immersive content like videos, which are typically 16:9. On a Pixel Fold, you have all the added complexity of the fold to make the videos you watch on the train 1cm taller.

The iPhone Duo unfolds to be the same height as the iPhone Pro Max. Sounds like it has the exact same problem - a bunch of added complexity without a practical use for it.

-----

> Touch ID is integrated into the side button

Another major flaw with the foldable form factor - it's hard to distinguish holding the device e.g. to pocket it and holding the device to use it. My foldable does the smartphone equivalent of butt-dialing way more often than any phone I've had before because it likes to unlock itself when I'm putting it in my pocket

I enjoyed the subtle shade (presumably at Samsung) when they discussed existing foldables having an awkward size, and choosing their new ratios and the asymmetric form factor. One edge square, one edge rounded, so all edges are rounded when open.

My pockets don’t care much about ISO paper standards (not sure why you call it metric? That doesn’t have much to do with the metric system as far as I’m aware?)

But it makes it really weird to type one handed I think.

As a reading device that is great, but as a phone that is wide.

I see a possible future where we have ultra thin devices that can be successively unfolded to larger formats based on this ratio, making size-based product variety obsolete. After that we get screen origami.

Nearly impossible to actually buy A4 paper in the US

Apple's submarine introduction of A* papersizes to the US.

Good design is inevitable.

In a completely clean room environment where a designer had never seen a folding phone, but had all the context of the iPhone and everything Apple had done, they would develop almost exactly the same design and features.

Designers have also been exploring the concept of foldable devices for literal decades, well before any reached the market. I have an industrial design and technology degree, we did a project in 2005 where we explored the designs around this, looking at the UI, the physical interaction, everything. My design had a similar aspect ratio and size, as I am sure half the student did my year and every other year they ran the project. (the iPhone Duo is about thousand times better than my design though!)

Thats not to say the Microsoft designers didn't do an incredible job, they did, but they were building on decades of design ideation from those that had experimented before them.

> the "use it as a tiny laptop" mode... It's all things they pioneered.

This feature is also standard in existing folding phones. It's a pretty obvious feature tbh.

Namewise, I feel like this is the original Duo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_Duo

Microsoft also had Windows XP Tablets [1] and also WinCE/PocketPC many years before.

While the Duo is more subtle for some changes, it might show us the "new" Apple where the innovation comes from fine-tuning and getting a mature product to the market.

At least from their presentation, it looks like they sat on the fence and looked at pretty much any good or bad thing that happened during the past years.

Seeing some reviews on the Samsung Fold for example, mentioned the speakers feeling weird as the audio orientation is fixed to the speakers location. Those little details make a difference.

I really hope modern Apple would go back to the details and nuances.

[1] https://betawiki.net/wiki/Windows_XP_Tablet_PC_Edition

These are just... obvious design choices that a foldable phone lends itself to. I'm not going to complain when Ford comes out with a new car that has a circle you turn when you want to turn the car. It's what works.

Did we forget about the vaporware Courier?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmFM9l5RJSg

The Surface Duo was a great idea with mediocre software and essentially no developer support.

The curse of doing anything interesting with Android.

Apple continues to Microsoftify themselves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvX3laQlg14

Microsoft stole from Apple once before, so it's not like this hasn't been experienced in reverse.

The difference here is Microsoft didn't have to take the hardware and pivot a new OS onto it at the last minute.

Remember... the Duo was supposed to be a cursed Windows 10-esque device. They brought on Movial to do a pivot to Android, then bought out the porting team in early 2024 to keep working on what they should have released in preparation for the Duo 2 (which is what they actually NEEDED to sell as an Android device at the time, but flopped in doing so).

I returned mine in late 2023. It wasn't the best experience and I was missing out on things like NFC dearly.

I trust Apple likely did better, though they’ve made bad decisions before (Studio Display camera).

My biggest worry is the lack of Face ID. I love Face ID so much. I know I can do the Apple Watch unlock, but I don’t want to. I just want my phone to immediately look unlocked to me. and Face ID did that the vast majority of the time.

So I’m very curious to hear what the hands-on impressions from people are. Is the screen good? Can you notice or feel the crease? Is there anything else wrong? Is not having Face ID as annoying as I suspect?

At least there’s something really interesting this year. It’s more than just faster and better cameras, which is nice. And having actual aperture blades on the pro is great.

But this is more interesting.

> It's priced identical to the Samsung Fold 8.

Not around here it isn't. The iPhone Duo starts at $2999 for the base storage. The Fold 8 is $2399 and even the Fold 8 Ultra is $2699. This only confirms that Apple has been steadily pricing themselves outside what I'm willing to spend. Can I afford it? Yes. Will I get $3k of value from it? No. This one is not for me at this price.

Is an inner screen camera really worth it? There's already a camera cutout on the outer screen, plus you can open the phone and use the full-size camera with the outer screen, which results in much more flattering imagery than the wide-angle lenses selfie cameras use. It's like taking the difference between an under-screen selfie camera and a regular selfie camera, and applying that again.

It makes sense to have one screen for an as-large-as-possible uninterrupted display, and another for maximum utility.

I like that Samsung doesn't cut as much corner off as Apple, but ideally I'd like to find a manufacturer that doesn't cut corners at all. Even though I'm not likely to buy another iPhone product, I am excited that Apple doesn't cut holes in their interior display, because that'll probably get other manufacturers to do the same.

I suspect there are plenty of people out there who habitually buy the most expensive of what Apple has to offer in any category. I guess Apple was leaving money on the table by not having anything in this price range in the first place.

> It's priced identical to the Samsung Fold 8.

The Fold8 is $1,899.99 (street price significantly lower as usual), the Duo is $1999.

The under-screen camera essentially doesn't matter. For the three times you're in a meeting with it, it'll hold. For everything else, you'll use the primary camera and the front screen.

I think the rounded corners of the the duo might be more comfortable to hold when open.

Apple usually gets heat for not being the first to a feature, even when they’re the first with an implementation that’s actually good, not just a gimmick

> Who is like, "damn I wish I had a tablet that I could fold up and still barely fit in my pocket"?

Me. I get why people like small phones. But, I've have the iPhone Jumbo Huge edition for a long time now. I use my phone as a pocket tablet 10X more than as a phone.

Looking at the Duo specs https://www.apple.com/iphone-duo/specs/ vs my current 12 Max Pro specs https://support.apple.com/en-us/111874 it looks like the differences I care about are

1) 1878 pixels over 4.64" vs. 1284 over 3.07" 2) Default camera mode is 48 MP vs 12. Other modes are surprisingly similar. 3) A much faster CPU

I'm sure there are 1,000 more small differences. But, my 12 Jumbo Huge from late 2020 still runs great. If I were to upgrade, I'd get the Duo. We'll see how much longer I keep waiting, I guess.

The other night I was at an event and pulled out my iPhone 13 mini to show some people a video I had taken -- the two people on either side of me exclaimed and pulled out their iPhone minis and we all laughed about holding on to them until they turn to dust.

> Who wants bigger phones? Who is like, "damn I wish I had a tablet that I could fold up and still barely fit in my pocket"?

I have bad eyesight. I've worn bifocals since I was 16, and I'm twice that age now. I literally used to carry around a 7" tablet in my pocket in college because I didn't have a smartphone yet. I want to be able to make things big so I can read them easily and not have to scroll constantly.

At this point it's feeding screen addiction.

When I go for walks I only bring my smart watch. If I break an ankle or someone has an emergency we can talk. But I can't pull up a bench and doomscroll for an hour.

I can't help but notice how many times they mention "viewing content" during the demo.

It almost feels like they make smartphones not to be handy tools for the digital age (who am I kidding), but for ultimate content consumption.

A tablet the folds up and fits in my pocket is perfect. Tablets are better for reading and watching things - they just kinda suck to carry around.

Lots of people. There’s a reason folding phones have been a big story for years.

Maybe they only sell to 5% of users but they sell and at top prices, meaning more possible profit.

And you can’t grow the iPhone at the current sizes. Everyone who once wants at one of those sizes already has one. You either have to convince them to upgrade or switch, and those are both hard.

However, if you give them a choice of something they haven’t had before, it’s way easier. Get the people who wanted to fold and went to android and would like to come back. Get the people who have a max and want something bigger. Get the people with an iPhone 13 who are simply curious enough to do the upgrade, but otherwise would’ve stood still.

Gotta sell.

People in their forties with money and declining eyesight who refuse to wear reading glasses until they really have to. (Me)

I want the rest of you to have big phones, so that the concept of "mobile friendly websites" can die. This is my sole interest in phones. So I hope the Duo can be held comfortably in landscape orientation, but I guess in fact it can't be held comfortably at all. Oh well.

You are, I'm afraid, in the minority.

Apple produces a "small" phone (S or Mini series) only every few years because that's enough to saturate that market.

I like my Apple phone 4s too it was fine in its time but these days I need a bigger phone because the eyesight isn’t exactly what it used to be. I don’t need a giant phone, but I need something a little bit bigger than a 4s.

Well, I'm with you and I was very excited when the iPhone Mini came out. However, the capabilities weren't equivalent to the regular-sized Pro (probably due to space reasons). So I didn't buy one despite loving the size and now cannot complain that it was discontinued.

Me. I love my Pro, and this year I'm switching to Max. My eyes (at 48) aren't what they used to be.

IMHO, one of the reasons I've been delaying an upgrade is because the standard sized iphone 13 ( not even pro ) I've had for a few years now is big enough already, anything larger just would not be ergonomic ( and I have large hands )...

I carry an iPhone because I love the size. I carry an iPad to read. This would be nice, although I prefer to keep these devices separate. The iPad isn't connected to my life, so it can enter my bedroom.

It's not a 2000 buck problem though.

> Why do they insist on every new phone being bigger than the phones before them?

Folded, I get, I want it to be a "regular size", but the only reason I don't like big devices is because they are clumsy to store in my pocket and use/grab one handed. If I can use it BOTH ways, now I have a choice. One handed for quick usage, and two handed for extended sessions. For $2K, yeah, I'm going to want a full fledged computer in my pocket.

> Who wants bigger phones? Who is like, "damn I wish I had a tablet that I could fold up and still barely fit in my pocket"?

I literally just got 7 pairs of pants tailored with bigger pockets so they could hold my freaking phone without it falling out all the time. I would love a smaller more petite phone.

> Who is like, "damn I wish I had a tablet that I could fold up and still barely fit in my pocket"?

Me! Sounds great. Ideally a full fold up laptops or some sort of HUD, but I'll take a pocket folding tablet for now.

My iPad is my primary computer so... me.

If everybody thought like you they wouldn't have discontinued the iPhone mini because nobody bought it.

There's also plenty of small Android phones.

I also want a small phone. I was happy with a Sony Xperia X Compact which is one inch shorter than my current Samsung A40, which is shorter and lighter than almost everything else.

The answer is people want that. It's not a novel idea. Huawei's folding phones are even bigger and they sell like hot cake at least in China.

I used to be a fan of smaller phones -- my current one is a 12 mini.

I'm getting this thing.

Changes in eyesight change your priorities.

That's why I prefer the flip format, over fold. Typing this on a Flip 3 I've had since 2021, very happy with it.

They tried mini iPhones. They didn’t sell well. Unfortunately the market is just not there.

Yeah I’d love another mini, but alas.

> Who wants bigger phones?

That's a mix, people like phones of all sizes.

> Who is like, "damn I wish I had a tablet that I could fold up and still barely fit in my pocket"?

But this question is silly. When your reference point switches from people buying phones to people buying tablets, there's a huge demand for tablets that are more portable.

The obvious answer is that people actually want bigger phones and you're in minority. But no, let's pretend what you personally want trumps that and ridicule them for it instead.

Don't blame Apple. They tried.

most people want bigger phones, apple made smaller iphones and they didnt sell

"Who wants bigger phones?"

Everyone who buys larger phones instead of the iPhone Mini. The market decided that.

the iphone mini unfortunately did not kill nor do most small iphones

How many times do HN users have to be told they are not the majority?

If you look at phone sales Pro Max out-sells the regular Pro

Regular people like big phones

>I want smaller phones.

You want a Zanco phone. They are tiny. Apparently designed to be small enough for prisoners to keep in their orifices.

I feel like Apple might be more restrictive and not allow display of creased examples (assuming it happens)

> Seeing the creases and crunchy-feeling hinges on well-used Samsung Fold display models has always been enough to put me off wanting one.

This has been a solved issue in modern foldables already. I live on a beach with Fold 6 and while I'm quite careful not to drop it I never had the sand stuck there for prolonged time. If there are any particles that crunch they do seem to disappear after a few folds which makes sense as metal is harder than sand. The inner screen has a soft protector you can replace at Samsung center for 15$ and 30 minutes of wait making the screen basically new.

I honestly still don't get how it's a good idea to have such a frail part being central to the phone experience and we probably don't know what are all the failure modes

For example, I bet Apple is not splitting the video signal and feeding it from both sides, which means that if your screen "fails funny" you get a dead left panel.

Zero-radius folds are rarely a good idea

*Xiaomi

apple is always "late to the party" and regularly takes existing tech, polishes it to a high standard of UX, and introduces a new paradigm for consumer tech products. if xiaomi has ever done that please let me know.

not to mention that chinese consumer goods companies are largely siloed to the east anyways

If pasteurized-vanilla-milk-toast-paste was a product.

Xiaomi copied the rumoured specs?

All folding phones will converge to this.

Well well how to turn tables..

Considering how many comments I regularly see on Hacker News from people who still love their M1 MacBooks, I’d say that’s not a particularly strong maxim.

Listen, I'm not saying you're wrong, but I will say I hope I'll at least get to update this comment down the line while holding that gorgeous looking phone in my hand

I get the sensibility of that advice but isn't that the case no matter when you buy it? I mean, they announced a nice iPhone Pro, optimized over multiple generations, and then immediately made it look primitive with the Duo. :)

*especially from Apple. I live by this maxim.

Especially Apple. Buying a first gen Apple product hasn't been great since like 1999 at least. Very few exceptions.

Of course, if too many people heed this advice there won't _be_ a second version to wait for.

I also usually just carry laptop if I need a bigger screen (and usually never use it on trips or holidays), but I do remember fondly of time when I had an iPad mini (not sure which gen), and it was very often in my jacket's pocket and was a really enjoyable device for consuming content, reading stuff, etc.

So when I was watching the keynote, I got those vibes of 'this is actually a form factor that I used in the past, if the price is not too wild I might get it'.

There's totally valid criticism to be made about the durability, not to mention price, but the pitch is crystal clear, "your phone can be a tablet on-demand". You (the proverbial you, not necessarily every person) always have your phone with you, but often don't have a tablet or laptop.

For many people the phone is the only computing device they use. Keeping portability and offering a larger display is a compelling offering for those people.

I tend to agree with you.

I quite like the idea of a tablet I can keep in my pocket. If there was some sort of first-party attachable keyboard (a la the iPad magic keyboard), I'd be strongly considering getting this. In the age of AI and increasingly-mature cloud agents, I can get a lot of my work done from a setup like that.

Galaxy Fold is popular with older people who have trouble reading small text

I no longer need an iPad Mini in my bag with this thing...

The main problems from that Duo was that Microsoft didn't believe in it.

This lead them to use a garbage CPU and support it for something like 2 years.

Apple has the balls to keep updating the vision pro even after it flopped and it will probably get 7 years.

Looking back now it was quite ahead of its time.

Actually kindof awesome! ...but when I saw the phone call at the end my mind immediately went back to "Taco-Talkin' w/ the Nokia N-Gage"! => https://sidetalkin.com/original/

August 12, 2020

The fedex driver that delivers to my office is still maining one of these. Its so cool.

Zune'd

Still use mine!

I will say it was a pain in the ass to open and answer calls though when you were busy doing things.

This is Apple's Achilles heel.

If another company could release something like the Duo that seamlessly switches between phone, tablet, and desktop experience and make it Apple quality then Apple are in trouble. The technology is all there since the days of Ubuntu Touch.

Sadly I don't think there is a company in a position to build such a device that could compete.

Canonical was simply 14 years too early, but we are rapidly apporaching this vision: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/02/ubuntu-for-android-c...

I mean, we still have the ridiculous separation between the Macbook Pro and iPad Pro with the same processors where you have to choose between a fully featured OS or a touchscreen. We are a long way from an iPhone being used in that way.

Formally specified: there exists some human woman, in whose hand this will fit.

It was clever that they used the reference point of a passport. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone complain about passports being unwieldy.

I was actually looking forward to a smaller iPhone. To have less addictive screen time. It looks like the Air was a once-thing. I don't see them releasing an e-ink phone either.

Maybe the answer lies in only wearing an Ultra watch if it becomes powerful enough and can function independently of a phone.

Perhaps with a PopSocket.

I’m a little disappointed with how big it looks folded, I was hoping for a mini that could unfold…

or pocket

no

Most women I knew with shattered screens had relatively large phones (max, plus, etc.), and the few of them who listened to my advice and got smaller phones, never broke the screens. Either girls over estimate their hands size (I guess compared to some YouTuber they see), or maybe bigger screens is just a status, or something else, but most girls have large phones for some reason.

I feel like it’s actually designed more with women in mind. Instagram influencing type women who will think nothing of spending $150 a month on it.

One big difference from Steve: it isn't the Steve show anymore. The people showing this stuff off are the people who lead the the teams that work on these things.

It's so much cooler to me to see the people closer to the work talking about it rather than just Steve Jobs, as amazing as he was to watch. I'll take slightly stilted any day of the week as a tradeoff.

Ternus did introduce a new rhetorical thing, though. He framed some of the guiding principles during the opening and throughout as ideas originating from himself, not Apple. Cook rarely said "I" in relation to a claim, other than "I'm so proud of" X, Y, Z. That's a bit more product guy, a bit more Opinionated. I am hoping for more of that.

People under estimate how hard it is to talk naturally in front of a camera.

There’s a reason why acting as a profession exists.

Don’t forget about how they desperately try to figure out what to do with their hands.

I do hope John Ternus & his team change it up, but I wasn’t expecting it from this event. He’s only been CEO for 9 days & this was probably shot before then.

There is no matching Steve, but I would like to see Apple try at least one live event again a year. Covid is what brought around the super rehearsed video presentation, and it fit Cook well, but are the days of live keynotes really done?

It’s been a while since I watched an Apple presentation, but I caught a bit of this one. And I spent the whole time trying to figure out who it was for - the presenters didn’t seem to express any genuine excitement about the products, and it didn’t convey any useful information that couldn’t be better shared by just posting the slides.

The only thing I can see is that it generates some clips for the presenters to share on their LinkedIn pages. I assume there is prestige in being selected as a presenter, and the rest of the show serves its purpose simply by existing.

The entire presentation fell into the uncanny valley for me. Not only was the presentation flat, but the appearance of the video just felt off for the entire presentation. At one point I was questioning if they were going for something that looked like an AI generated video.

Apple needs to bring back live keynotes instead of this overproduced TV show.

> Relative to Steve's emotionally-rich casual-coded excited-to-share delivery.

Example 1,494,298 of “most people aren’t Steve Jobs.” Can’t believe we are still doing this comparison. In a few weeks it will be 15 years old.

That’s something I noticed as well. It was very subtle, but my brain was telling me that something was off and the way people spoke was very artificial.

apple needs to rethink so much more fundamentally. Ternus talks identically to Tim Cook. Indistinguishable. It’s like when Jobs left, Apple became a reflection of the superficial touchstones that Jobs left behind, rather than the CEO defining what the culture is, and evolving it.

Give him 6 months... usually it takes a bit to change things around (including marketing / pr presentations).

But, he has been part of Apple for too long, and probably has internalized that style.

Hope he brings good change though...

Craig F with his constant foot-shuffling...

Brand is brand. CEO is not brand.

I loved the disclaimer at the end of the iPhone Pro model that felt distinctly non-Apple and more akin to a drug commercial, "Usage of heavier models may be limited. Subscribers to certain iCloud+ plans will likely receive higher usage quotas. Now here's Sri to talk about electronics!"

Steve Jobs built sand castles at Apple, these guys are building Kings Landing.

People are insufferable with the amount of criticism

Like no one is above reproach and def everyone is open to criticism, it to open a thread with 1200 comments and see this as the first comment was super annoying

So much stuff to discuss and we are focusing on some presenters tone? jfc

a very neurotypical response

> Apple is rarely first to market, but they definitely produce the device that indicates the point where there is a market.

There's been a proven market for years already, but it's been less obvious in Western markets. In East Asian markets, foldables have had a very sizable market presence, especially in China.

There's other trends that are less obvious to US and western markets, such as phone crossbody straps (which are also very big in East Asia).

> $2,000 for a phone? Holy price point, Batman. No thanks.

Isn't that basically in line with the competition? Cheaper, even, than some of the competition?

I might get one. I've been using a mini for years and am pretty much giving up on Apple ever making one again. The AI features finally seem worth an upgrade, and I don't love the size of the Air, standard iPhone, or Pro/Max models.

If I'm going to have to two-hand it, this is perhaps not the worst. Also, it might be more one-handable when closed than regular iPhones.

Is it very expensive? Yes, especially if you don't opt for the base storage (256 is not enough in the age of LLMs). But I've not upgraded in 5 years, so I've got budget to spare.

> $2,000 for a phone?

> I assume the people who would buy something like this have enough money not to care, and also would not care about the second part of my comment, because they want New Thing or use their phones enough for it to be useful.

But what's the monthly price with Apple's upgrade program? I'd bet that's how most people will be buying it (me included, if I decide to get one).

they're definitely hoping the people who can't afford it simply lease it like an expensive car.

You remind me of the (in)famous comment by Steve Ballmer when the iPhone was first introduced .

In Canada they range from $3000-$4800. Absolutely bonkers prices.

Most people don't buy their phones, they just finance it through the phone carrier as an "upgrade".

The phone carriers then upsells their more expensive plans.

Just Klarna (or shall we say, "Apple Upgrade" [1] now) it. You need to consume. Not want, need.

1: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/07/apple-upgrade-launche...

5 different people messaged me today saying they are pre ordering a duo

None of those people have ever messaged me about any other phone event ever

I don’t see the problem with the pricing. It’s the most used gadget and its an iphone and ipad in one.

Few pay it directly. It's paid in installments, subsidized by the carrier, traded-in for for an old but still okay phone, etc.

And those who want to boast, can of course buy for the full price. This is a non-zero share of the target market.

I am with you on this one, probably sales charts are up for foldable phones but I am not sure those people are reading the room correct. We want smaller devices more tactile if we wanted ipads we would get ipads.

I try and usually succeed at using my phones for around 3 years, so it's not out of the question. Still have another year on my current one, I'll check out the next duo next year.

Depending on the age, people are spending between 4-6.5 hours a day on their phone. How much are people spending on computers? Their mattress? 2,000 for the cutting edge version is frankly reasonable for what a phone provides in this day and age, especially considering the last 3 years of inflation in the US...

to sell a phone for such a ridiculous price you need to make it as obvious as possible - a folded phone is pretty obvious - now people can buy it as a status symbol. what's the point of a status symbol if not everybody around you immediately recognizes the item as very expensive. there you go.

$700 premium for Duo compared to iPhone Pro Max 18. Exactly the price of iPad mini 256GB.

It's not a phone, it's a status symbol fashion object.

I'd imagine its targeted in particular at producers - e.g. content producers.

There's enough buyers in the market.

It has Touch ID

according to the blurb you can lease it $60/month

$2800 in most of Europe

yeah, insane.

It’s $2250+tax for europoors

Honestly, that doesn’t seem all that crazy. I was actually expecting it to be closer to $3k

i love that we get these comments, even 20 years later. the phone costs what many (most? even?) folks on HN make in a day, after taxes.

The good news is Apple made a more practical dual-screen device than most previous attempts. The “big square” UI was awkward for both reading and video. Apple not only made it rectangular but kept it in the magic aspect ratio that’s able to be shared by single and dual screens.

I had written off dual screen when the square layouts were the norm, but I think Apple has struck a good balance here between screen size and price+chunkiness+serviceability. I won’t be holding my breath for an iPhone Trio. (Not to be confused with Palm Treo.)

I wish that too. Too many convenience features on both sides that are accidentally or intentionally not making it over, even when they would apply to both. I wish it had to be an explicit decision to lock functionality to only iPad or iPhone, rather than it having to be an explicit decision to make functionality available to both. Make the more likely decision the default.

I'm right-handed but I always keep my phone in my left pocket and use it with my left hand (keys have always been in my right pocket). I'm also pretty curious about the answer to this.

I think it will be like Apple Vision, a device that is more for developers than end user.

$2000 for an iphone, just insane.

This is what it comes down to for me as well. If Apple has somehow magically solved the reliability issues this will be fantastic, if they are just fad chasing it'll be DOA

I'm in the exact same boat. I already gave Apple a bunch of money for something with a hinge this summer, and it's a Mac that can actually run a terminal, a proper desktop browser, or even something wacky like x86 games through a compatibility layer, etc.

No way I prioritize that kind of cash on something that only runs mobile-tier software.

I thought exactly the same. The sand scratching the screen facing down. eeww

This comic from 14 years ago remains evergreen https://hijinksensue.com/comic/surface-tension/

Samsung had 7 generations of the wrong way, then one of the right way after they learned what Apple was doing. Microsoft literally does not have a product like this.

That impressed me too. Be if those “Apple touches” of yore. I kind of wonder how well it works in person, but it’s nice that it’s there at all.

Apple is the champion of removing features. It gives them room to bring them back in the next edition

While I won't pay it, it seems pretty comparable to other flagship foldable from Google and Samsung.

> $1999 is ridiculous.

Plenty of people on HN earn that much money in a single day after tax.

We'll have to see but it has a titanium frame with Ceramic shield front and back.

Obviously Apple knew where other foldable phones fell short; they clearly planned to overcome those shortcomings.

The retail price of the equivalent Samsung phone is $1900 (1899) - or $2100 for their 'Ultra' phone. Seems just in line to me.

I think there were rumors going even higher since Apple is so often a premium priced product.

Matching their top competitor in price is a good look.

They could’ve absolutely floored everyone if it had been $1500, but there’s no way that’s possible, at least having margins anywhere near what Apple likes.

My first thought is what happens when I drop a $1999 device and break it.

I think you’re out of luck. If Apple can’t sell the mini I don’t know who will enter the market.

Yea, I'm in this boat. My 13 mini has been dropped a couple of times. The screen is still functional, but it's on its last legs.

I spent a few hours researching the other night on what replacement phone I'd buy, and.... the answer was a refurbished 13 mini.

Have you looked at the new Motorola Razrs? They're great. 4" external display that is easy to use one-handed and can run any Android app (though some apps and websites struggle with a screen that small), and it unfolds into a phablet for when you want a huge display.

I believe Samsung has a new one with a similar form factor too, though I haven't looked into it.

Light is making a flip phone [1], and it's somewhat hackable now that they release an SDK [2]

[1]: https://www.thelightphone.com/shop/products/light-flip

[2]: https://developers.thelightphone.com

I totally accept that I'm the minority.

When I was 12-13 I started taking a steroidal inhaler which inhibited my growth, so my hands are literally the same size as when I was 13. (maybe slightly wider).

As such I have about the same finger length as the average woman, and when I used the iPhone 4S and 5S I had no problems, I was not able to comfortably use the 6 with one hand, and it came with that ugly camera bump, so I returned it and tried to go Samsung. (it was big, but the rounded edges helped a fair bit) - the software sucked.

I bit the bullet and went back to my 5S, and when the SE (2nd gen - shaped like the iPhone 5 but with beefed internals) rolled out it was a day 1 purchase for me.

Ever since then I've been looking for a phone -- the iPhone "Mini" was as large as the 6 which was too large (I did buy one though) -- I eventually bought an iPhone 15 pro, but honestly, I hate it. It is the heaviest thing I carry daily and it doesn't do anything more than my 5 did that i care about, and I can't comfortably operate it. I start really disliking mobile devices because of it- and the software is getting worse year on year too.

I'm getting serious fatigue from this, but the world has not only caught up to a mobile world, now many things actively expect/require you to have a modern smart phone, especially in Sweden.

I suspect you might be interested in this crowdfunded project - https://smallandroidphone.com/

same. my current SE 3 is starting to limp battery-wise and I'm about to switch to my backup one. Hoping they come to their senses before it wears out.

there is not demand. sales prove this. there is no amount of antidotal evidence you can offer: small phones don't sell.

A cube. With six square displays. No buttons, no bevels.

isnt this running iOS browser and not the desktop version?

All existing iPhones:

https://www.macworld.com/article/3229342/iphone-price-increa...

I think the idea is the outside screen would be propped up, not on the ground. Though I do wonder if the outside-screen-down orientation is supported.

> Is the outside screen REALLY that strong

iPhone 17 pro glass is insanely strong

current iphone would have no issue with this as long as you dont apply pressure.

People have always complained about HN being too snarky, or snarkier than it used to be. Comments like this don't help; they just compound the snark!

There has always been snark but I swear it has been really excessive lately.

Its brutally expensive and probably doesn't fit in a pocket well.

Do you expect hn being an uncritical apple fanclub?

I'm not the market for it (I don't watch youtube, etc on phone), but I've seen some Samsung folds IRL and they are pretty amazing for video content.

This is a gorgeous design.

Beauty is subjective. That's not snark, that's reality. Nothing is "genuinely beautiful". You can't just call something beautiful and have everyone agree that it is in fact "beautiful". It's the most overused word in marketing.

We'll find out when the hands-on reviews start coming in. Right now, we're seeing Apple's carefully-curated press photos & renderings

the lcd is flexible, it doesn't fold in a sharp crease but uses a complicated hinge to roll it into a loose bend when closed. But maintaining a "crease-free" appearance after many use cycles seems to be a major challenge in this market.

I'll watch Marques when I want to get caught up on stuff like this, because he usually has a minimal fluff video on the subject.

For foldable phones, this might be a good pick to get caught up (5 months old, but minimal crease): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFUB_jL_XcM

On the Samsung Flip you can definitely see a crease—it's not super annoying but it's definitely there

On other phones it is visible, here we’ll see soon.

There will inevitably be a crease after a few weeks/months, as every folding phone has had. Apple is relying on Samsung's display tech, and Apple doesn't have better solutions than Samsung.

The reason it doesn't actively crease is because it's not like a piece of paper you press on to fold: the screen "rounds" itself, and as long as it doesn't go past a breakpoint (which is what the body of the phone prevents), it'll restore.

Apple often aggressively cuts scope like this on first generation products and then brings back the features in the future updates. Maybe it’s to provide a reason to upgrade, maybe it’s just good project management but iPhone Duo 2 having “dual FaceID” sounds like something Apple would do.

Look at the low end iPhone’s slowing getting better screens, TouchID, and then FaceID.

They would have had to make an even larger section of the OLED translucent and traded internal space for an IR dot projector and a second camera beside the main one.

It would have made an even larger splotch of the screen look odd.

I'm surprised people like Face ID so much, it very often doesn't work for me. I frequently want to unlock a phone when I'm not looking at it or my face is not visible. Having Touch ID is a feature for me.

Phone’s already expensive enough and unless they have inner and outer faceid then they need touchid anyway

id rather buy both in a single device that i can carry in my pocket.

it's intentional to hide the crease

I remember Ubuntu were going for that “dock it and it’s a full computer” idea about 10 years back with their failed phone OS project.

just buy this phone and don't open it up

It's a bit disappointing that it's 50g heavier than the Z Fold 8, and similar to the Pixel 9 Pro fold in weight and thickness, at 254 g / 5.2 mm / 11.3 mm.

> is this going to be another Vision Pro?

100%

The market for a phone like this is extremely small and the price makes it even smaller.

Does anyone use their phone “like an actual phone” anymore, as in held to their ear?

Most people I see out and about are either using face time, or inexplicably speaking in speakerphone and holding the flat, face up, with the bottom of the phone towards to their mouth in a weird awkward way, or they are using headphones, wired or wireless.

> Folding screens have been a solution in search of problem for like a decade now

The problem is I want to have small phone that can be expanded to have large screen when needed, glad I’ve solved this decade long conundrum!

I like folding phones that go from half to full size. Fits in my pocket and I still get a big screen when I want.

How do you know? Have you seen a Duo?

Yes, I also was curious about left-handed users watching the demo, it seems very right-hand oriented at this time. Maybe there will be a toggle in Settings to switch some of the UI around, kind of like how Apple Watch asks which wrist it's wrapped around.

Right handed women (which is a giant market) are going to love this thing.

They do it for the watch, so it should be on their radar.

Praise be unto thee, Steve Apple, for inventing the foldable phone! It will be years before Android can copy this.

> Competitors may have copied most of the form factor

Samsung unveiled its first foldable in 2018, what are you talking about?

> Competitors may have copied most of the form factor

Is this satire making fun of how Apple often "invents" things that has been on the market for years, or did you mean to write "Apple as usual copied from competitors"?

In the FAQ it says "Yes. iPhone Duo will work with Apple Pencil (USB-C). Coming later this year."

It kinda sounds like it's a new model of the Apple Pencil coming soon (rather than support coming soon), and older Pencil and Pencil Pros will not work at all. Which, if true, boo.

I never trust the later with Apple. Too often have they failed to deliver. Why release this without the obvious benefit?

The right idea at the wrong time is the wrong idea

Let's see if Apple has done it right. I have no doubt.

Evasive? They literally discussed the layers of materials, with the outer being a polymer.

They went in pretty extensive detail for the internal parts of the folding screen?

They talked for several minutes on the materials and engineering that went into the screen and how it wasn't "the same plastic all the other folding phones are made of"

Modern foldables use ultra-thin glass (UTG). There’s a factory-installed screen protector layer on top which can make it feel plasticy.

You can do that with Android foldables using Termux

> I am so used to using one hand to operate phones.

I even forgot about this. God damn it, I enjoyed the SE so much because of this.

or buy a product that is small and does both things

Very strange how in the middle of a specs page for the device they a pitch there suggesting you get an Apple Card (formatted on the spec page as if it was actually a spec of this device) before continuing on with the rest of the specs/features.

I haven't looked, but am guessing the probably exists on other Apple specs pages.

in the keynote they explicitly said it was a polymer. Apple materials technology is really good, but it's not "folding glass" good.

> What's up with all the negativity?

It's the horrible form factor.

I listed the 3 ways to make a folding phone (with examples) in my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49636355

If they had chose either of the other two folding formats, and reduced the amount of screen they cut off in the corners, they probably would have had gold on their hands and shifted the market towards foldables.

Instead, they chose the bad one.

I have an 11 Pro iPhone, which I’ve had since 2019 now may be the time to upgrade.

Are you new to HN? There is literally nothing that the users on this site won't bitch and moan about.

It's uglier than the z fold 8 imo. Idk why manufactures even bother with the corner curve. It look imbalance.

A smaller closed size than current phones would be the main appeal for me. Phone bloat has gotten out of hand.

JerryRigEverything will deploy his hardness pick test in short order I'm sure.

I actually disagree, I think this will be a massive hit.

I've long thought that the aspect ratio of a normal phone just feels old fashioned now and sucks for most tasks. So many times I go to do something on my phone and reach for my laptop instead because I know it'll be easier. But with this I could do most things on it.

10% wider than a pro max. I can't imagine that's going to feel good in your pocket

Very cool, but yes, the form factor, which is the most crucial point, seems off.

100% agree. The market for this will be miniscule. Look at how small the market for the iPad mini is. This will be even worse because it's 3x the price and has to be carried as a main device. How many people are wearing pants that can even physically fit this? This device is almost certainly too big to be comfortable in your front pocket. And if you are wearing something like athletic pants it's going to be so heavy it will pull your pants down... It's just impractical.

It's a shame there isn't the kind of competition in the US when it comes to mobile phones as there is in China. Many HN users would likely never buy a Chinese OEM device, but if you look at the variety of devices offered by Chinese brands, they're trying all sorts of approaches. Kind of like their EV market. Meanwhile, your choices in the US are Apple, Samsung, Motorola, Google, and that's pretty much it. I wouldn't say there's a ton of innovation between them...kind of like the large US automakers.

Depends on if it starts to get a crease after using it a while. I tend to assume that this is why Apple chose not to adopt folding screens as quickly as Android phones did.

I mean that is the business. These companies are in the business of ordering parts from components vendors and leasing floor space to assemble them after all. Folding screen is probably something you can order from many companies in shenzen at scale right now (or whichever chinese city is the "cell phone screen" hub, might not be shenzen).

Just like the first iPod and iPhone.

iPhone Duo 2 with working dual FaceID cameras will be a headline feature for sure.

It's made for viewing 70mm IMAX /s

I know the early ones were really bad. My impression is I’ve stopped hearing about them failing all the time, so I assume they’ve gotten decent.

I had such high hopes for this phone, but now I know it won’t replace my 13 Mini. It looks so wide you can barely hold it comfortably, let alone use it one-handed — and that's the whole point of a small phone for me.

Hard agree but only because I think TouchID on the sleep/wake button sucks. The home button-less design and gestures introduced on the iPhone X were obviously designed in tandem and only work with FaceID. I have Touch ID disabled on all of my devices that have it because it's so damn annoying now.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they mentioned both Face ID and Touch ID in the stream. They wanted to add Touch ID because of the various angles people might use the phones with. Also mentioned that it'll unlock with your Apple Watch, like the Mac does right now.

I _much_ prefer Touch ID. Always hated Face ID.

They need to just do both, honestly, whenever possible. Both methods have legions of fans and detractors.

I am happy that I will have managed to completely skip the requirement to use FaceID.

prob tech and UX issue. FaceID can't do side ways, and people opens side ways half the time. Maybe there are also functions unlockable wihtout clamshell opening. can't put 5 faceID on each side and facing every which way.

Slightly better for documents and spreadsheets? Although I have a laptop for those, so... I guess I'm not the target audience.

iOS runs plenty of productivity software, many which run great on larger screen devices like this or iPads. What does "productivity" mean to you? Or is it just terminals and coding?

Most people aren’t doing productivity. They’re watching videos and playing games. This would mean I don’t need my iPad on flights or when travelling. And when I’m travelling I don’t need to be doing productive things.

I sympathize but you're literally looking at something an hour old and demanding that the economic and political realities that produced it change entirely.

I too have nothing to contribute to this post.

Explore Pixel Grapheneos Lineageos or Fairphone Unlocked boot loader in pixel to load third party operating system. PinePhone for Linux Ubuntu touch

I agree with the sentiment and hopefully am using my last phone like that right now, but I’m also really hoping for very big advances for Linux phones before it comes time to upgrade. Right now they all seem to have serious drawbacks

Exactly my feelings. I want something with custom ROM.

Considering only two major mobile platforms exist and both are proprietary locked down software ecosystems, I assume you have a PinePhone or something?

Very brave take about Apple /s

Agreed. Disturbing.

There are some amusing apps which read the MacBook's lid angle sensor. I remember one of them played a creaking noise through the speakers when you open or close it... Somehow I doubt App Store review will let that in for the Duo, but we can always hope.

I thought so as well, but where do you put it when the phone is folded?