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> My favorite part of the new Groks has been how they speak in plain english. I simply cannot stand Claudish.

Grok has its own feel too. It's not as bad as Claude, but one of the things that bugs me is that it is far too terse.

It regularly seems to come up with terms and descriptions for things in its chain of reasoning and then uses these terms in its output assuming you understand what it's talking about.

I find I often have to ask it to re-explain what it means.

FYI a quick fix for claudish is to ask for the response to be in ASD-STE100 (Simple Technical English). Then it is far more readable. But I would agree that this is an annoyance and shouldn't require user workaround to get something readable.

For what it's worth - over the last few years or whatever, it seems like Anthropic benchmaxxes the least.

That being said, I currently prefer Sol / Astra to Opus / Fable as I find both to be a better cost payoff to me.

> I simply cannot stand Claudish

I totally agree, it’s like that as models become more intelligent, they are less understandable by most of people... but aren’t we humans doing the same?

Perhaps you haven't had the chance to use it, but 3.8 flash is the best model for talking too. Even routing Claudes output through 3.8 to have it explain whats going on is a breath of fresh air

I've found grok 4.6 speaks heavily in Claudish. It especially likes using verbs as nouns.

> Claudish

I do wonder why a frontier model does this to be honest. It still does good coding wise, but it seems strange to me. r/Claude is full of "load bearing" jokes in every thread.

Token price doesn't tell you much without knowing token efficiency.

$0.50 for cache reads, which is 25% of input. While other models are 10% of input.

And like that grok4.7 cache reads are more expensive than sol's (at $0.40/mil).

> I find the post cursor groks are phenomenal at frontend web development, though Claude is much better at backend ruby.

Wonder if we'd benefit from a much more specialized + task-specific benchmarks to paint a clearer picture like this. A benchmark solely for frontend, ruby, hardware, etc.

> My favorite part of the new Groks has been how they speak in plain english.

I don't know if it's the plain english or what, but I really like Grok for legal research (as opposed to code). It's got a noticeable edge in getting to the point compared to Opus 5.

For me Grok finds legit bug that Fable and Astra miss so I always run it as part of code review

I've noticed Chatgpt 5.6 Sol High, on the chat interface, inventing words that are a mixture of Portuguese and English. Like "hardcodar" a mix of "hardcode" and the most common verb ending in Portuguese "-ar". Some don't have a single google hit

Using a variety of models feels similar to the benefit of having a team of individuals from different backgrounds.

Looking at AA and Vals, your theory seems to check out.

I expect the next Anthropic release to finally reduce the prevalence of Claudish

it's definitely not bigger. smaller if anything looking at how much faster it is

Grok and Zai have both been excellent as adjunct code-reviews, on their cheapest plans, for me. Fable plans, Opus writes, Codex as primary reviewer, but Grok and Zai usually find something worth fixing that the others have missed. Both are well worth whatever the $20 or so I'm paying for them

I do not understand how anyone can seriously use a tool that has "Be funny and irreverent when appropriate" baked into the system prompt.

I don't want to waste money because my calculator is cracking jokes. They don't deserve their paltry 5% marketshare or whatever it is they have currently. I'm not even getting into Musk as a person or the horrid things we've seen Grok spit out on twitter. I just don't trust his companies with my data and I have seen very little evidence that it's ever the best tool for the job. I'm sure those cases exist but I can't imagine it's worth it.

> for any usecase I tried

For example?

For transparency, it took around 20M cache read + 1M input + 100k output tokens. API pricing for each:

Grok 4.7: $12.60

GPT Astra: $35.00

Here are some somehow standardized pelican tests but for 3d scenes in threejs at threejseval.com

Grok 4.7 generations: https://threejseval.com/models/grok-4.7-high

Also go vote on https://threejseval.com so you can help evaluate how Grok and other model performs compared to each other!

I think these are the worst I've seen, at least in some time. It's a silly benchmark though, not sure what to make of it

I tried in Cursor and see a lot of improvements over Grok 4.6 svgs. The AA numbers indicate it's not very token efficient though: https://artificialanalysis.ai/agents/coding-agents?agents=co...

Poor fella doesn’t have a seat. Intriguing design where both pedals are on the same side of the frame. Balancing must be a challenge.

Are there good tools for doing context audits? I feel I have no good way to visualize what a new session is getting by default in a given repo without crawling through every potentially included markdown file

What is the default reasoning level?

Hahaha. I remember when musk and his merry band of sycophants were bragging about grok producing the only physically accurate bicycle. What happened?

Not surprising considering Grok 4.7 is a 2T model, so Sol/Opus class, not Astra/Fable class.

I tried Astra w/ high reasoning on a design document project and it was horrible. It started duplicating output lines, made document edits without permission, and basically did a poor job writing clear prose. I went back to 5.6-sol and it's great. I'm an OpenAI fanboy and was severely disappointed. I hope Astra is better for coding.

Astra fails in similar ways, and at similar frequency, as GPT 5.6 Sol does. It often goes way out of scope, or just stops prematurely, or tries to find odd and even dangerous workarounds when it gets stuck.

It's phenomenal at computer use and 3D stuff. I've been using it less and less for coding.

I don't understand these comments.

The two models are in completely different price tiers. Astra costs 5 times as much.

It seems like all you can judge about cars would be their maximum speed on an oval.

Impressive! I had to peek at the SVG file and it superficially looks good, however, as is the case with everything AI, the more you look, the more it doesn't make any sense.

By now AI should know of the DRY concept. But no. Hence the keys have a rounded rectangle for the key shape and another rounded rectangle for a clip path, to prevent text overflow. There are 72 * 2 = 144 identical rectangles, when just one would suffice (in the defs), with this being cloned once for the clip path, and 72 times for the keys.

I would not expect SVGO levels of optimisation (rounding numbers, that sort of thing), however, the human, if writing out the same thing for the 72nd time, might think 'is there a better way', to get the manual out. A graphics program such as Illustrator would not do that, but AI 'should' because AI.

The above is not criticism of your work, just an observation regarding AI SVG capabilities.

Compared to the deep seek, gml sure but compared to OpenAI and Anthropic it’s actually very cheap.

In cursor I have switch over to grok for planning a composer for coding.

It’s a great value if you get Cursor Ultra. I basically have infinite tokens

What is the most secure way to use this model as someone who is lazy

Brought to you by...

DeepSeek 4.1 Flash is garbage, it almost only produced trash code. if you do extremely dumb things it is maybe sometimes fine to use.

Your comment is like 6 months to a year late.

There for awhile it seemed like we’d have 3 big competitors but then Grok 4.2 or 4.4 was just diabolical while OAI and Claude continued their significant improvements. Grok was/is so bad that I was convinced musk was gonna shut it down and just fund Anthropic compute once they reached their compute agreement.

Output tokens from Intelligence Index:

- grok 4.6 (xhigh): 97M (for 44 score)

- grok 4.7 (xhigh): 240M (for 46 score)

That is comparing Grok 4.6 high to Grok 4.7 xhigh tho.

muse spark 1.3 contribs cache read is $0.002 btw (~220x diff).

Are the prices on Bedrock substantially different to the rate cards of the direct APIs? Just trying to understand whether this is Opus-through-Bedrock is too expensive, or Opus is too expensive.

There are some users reporting it improved a lot in the last few weeks. The max sub usage for Grok is around $12,000 of API pricing now, so a 40x multiplier for the $300 plan.

It is the same multiplier for Sol with subscription. For Astra though the multiplier is ≈20x, so half of Sol usage.

For Claude it seems to be ≈40x too for Opus, but less for Fable (similar to Astra in GPT).

All on the most expensive plan. Previously, Grok usage escalated linearly from the $100 plan to $300 plan. That would be a really good $100 plan if it is still true.

Some sources:

1. https://x.com/kunchenguid/status/2098256018836963382

2. https://x.com/stevenzhang/status/2092110386569089311

3. https://github.com/openai/codex/issues/43731

4. https://redd.it/1wciwc1

5. https://x.com/SemiAnalysis_/status/2064815044085318040

6. https://redd.it/1vx0k69

I find I can just about get by with coding every day on a Cursor $60/mth sub with Grok fast mode disabled. Doing pretty heavy coding work/requirements etc, but not much sub agents and no loops.

For me and what I’m doing that’s insanely good value.

I find grok build chews through my SuperGrok sub very quick - but I think that is due to it having the 500k context window which uses more credits. Cursor limits it to 256K (tho I see in today’s update for Grok 4.7 there’s now a toggle for context size).

There are two ways to subscribe, and it’s very confusing, but the best value is to get cursor ultra for $200 a month. I basically have infinite tokens with that plan, plus grok bot, which I really like

Well when I ran out of Grok SuperHeavy subscription ($300) once and tried to use extra credits to cover half a day remaining till reset, $50 in extra credits went in two hours. Based on that, subscription definitely lasts longer; Grok subscription just about covers a week of my work (sometimes a bit extra remains unused, sometimes it runs out half a day to a day early). And as a point of comparison, it lasts for doing same tasks as 2.5-3 weekly limits of Codex on 5.6 Sol did (using xhigh on both Sol and Grok); I needed 3x$200 Codex subscriptions to cover my weekly usage.

By far the worst value subscription of any. I tried Superheavy and got about 5-10% the usage of CC/Codex.

Same reason Coca-Cola only mention Pepsi and Pepsi only mention Coca-Cola. It's an proven way to capture the market. You would rather split the pie in two rather than in 4,12 or 50 right?

Try using astra as an orchestrator for deepseek 4.1 flash, it seems to work out quite well.

I am using exactly the same flow.

Astra for deep dive investigations, Sol 5.6 at mid-level for day to day tasks, Grok 4.6 via Cursor for routine and low complexity tasks.

cached input tokens are $0.50 per 1M (prompts under 200k tokens) and $1.00 per 1M (200k+)

$0.40

Yah, I am pleasantly surprised at Grok Bot. Hopefully this improves CUA which has been a touch lacking w/ Grok 4.6. Grok 4.6 works but is slow compared to stuff like Astra Light.

I've had really good experiences with Grok 4.6 and grok build. I've been playing around with tscircuit and it can write code with an understanding of spacial reasoning, while also importing cad components from different file formats into tsx, I've been having claude come in and try to error check it and so far claude hasn't found anything to improve in my three projects.

I'm excited for 4.7 although I share skepticism with other users whether 4.7 will be significantly better, since they didn't raise the price.

It did not. xhigh is new to grok.

I think 4.6 got an xhigh after launch. The benchmarks seem to all have been against 4.6 high.

which is crazy because this was grok's competitive advantage, worse than OpenAI models but better than everything else, now it's less efficient than Opus or Fable 5.1

xAI should offer persecuted White South Africans deep reverse-discrimination-victim discounts on Grok tokens.

Yeah I switched and the 300 plan is basically introductory 100/ month and I never hit the limit. While constantly hammering on it

It’s not at all winner takes all, it’s a race to the bottom. Models are becoming a commodity

because boomers will give you free money + tip

musk can fund the space stuff with this

OMP is a joke. don't use that garbage

https://openai.com/index/our-decision-on-cursor-following-it...

This explains why. Mentioned in another comment, but cursorbench explicitly tests with Cursor as the harness, and OpenAI doesn't allow them to use Astra in Cursor.

Deceptive? An extremely quick google search would answer your question. OpenAI pulled out of Cursor before they released Astra so it never got that benchmark.

I wonder if that means that SpaceX evals show that they consider astra better than fable or that they hate Sam&co so much they don't want to show their stuff.

> The personality is bland

I don't use Grok, but do you want your LLM to have a personality? "Personality" is exactly what people don't like about Claude.

I used openrouter to send same prompt to qwen, derpseek, gemini and grok and found that grok does good research and produces less bullshit, especially when prompted to be critical of an idea

> The personality is bland

Sounds like a plus. Guess I will give Grok another try...

This has been my experience as well. Grok will end tasks almost immediately and claim "Done!". It's definitely the laziest and most "dishonest" of all the models. The others aren't perfect, but I can't use Grok for any serious coding task.

> it doesn’t work nearly as hard

Until you ask it to start generating horrific imagery and then it's best in class.

It might be more capable, but AA indicates it's a lot less token efficient than Grok 4.6: https://artificialanalysis.ai/agents/coding-agents?agents=co...

I am subscribed to ChatGPT, Claude, Kimi and GLM coding plans. 200$ one on GPT and the 20$ ish ones on all others. Recently added Grok and it has somehow bacome my second most used model.

For daily one off questions I prefer it because it is fast enough and I like the way it responds. I also use it for basic research like “find me a battery drill for this and that”.

Kimi and GLM feel extremely coding oriented. I use them for code reviews basically. I hate the way Anthropic models talk. GPT takes too much time and effort for that kind of stuff for some reason.

Grok happened to be a nice middle ground.

You should try it, it is less sycophantic than other models and is faster and better at most reasoning levels, don't confuse the twitter bots and services also named Grok with the frontier model itself

I can't take anyone seriously who uses grok seriously. I like to look at the cybertruck owners forum every so often because it's just... hilarious. And the amount of superfluous grok use over there is just insane. Half the posts I click in there will have a bunch of people dumping entire grok takes "why do people hate cybertruck owners?" "Because they're jealous and poor," sort of stuff that they just LOVE to post.

As a technical point of reference to compare against other llm stuff, sure, I'll glance at a report or benchmark but I really couldn't care less about anything to do with the project and it could blow other options away and I wouldn't touch it.

117 million people per month. Anything else I can google for you?

You'll have to include it in the future, or your benchmark won't be relevant.

For now, I doubt anyone would notice your protest if you didn't announce it.

I think you're seeing a big shift around it.... since it's been markedly cheaper and also still easily available from OpenCode, it's getting large enterprise traction.

Not sure why you are being downvoted. Until Musk owns up to his Nazi salute, I won't have anything to do with Grok, no matter how good or cheap it is. And yes, we need to keep talking about this because it's absurd.

Is this an ad for Vals AI? Looking at their website, the rankings don't mesh with my observed utility for almost any model outside of fable and astra being good-ish.

I bought a month of use for $100. Early impressions of Grok 4.6 was that it's good at talking about ideas (got me unstuck from a piece of writing that I was working on; that bought it a TON of goodwill) and just okay as a coding tool compared to my more extensive use of Fable and Opus. Not as smart as Fable but cheaper; not as capable as Opus 5 but way less annoying along the way. And it generates images, which Anthropic doesn't do.

Not sure if I'll hold the subscription but I could see myself working with it more.

I tried it last month after hearing here that it didn’t speak in Claudisms.

As a chatbot it’s totally fine, virtually indistinguishable from Gemini or ChatGPT or Claude.

For coding it’s… okay. I tried 4.6 and it feels similar to Opus from 12 months ago, or maybe Sonnet from 9 months ago. YMMV.

I use it in the car to talk to because it's built-in, mostly for navigation via voice. It seems to be an old or quantised model, because it seems a few years old, and it has strict rate limits unlike Gemini, where it really just shuts off if you talk to it a few times in one day, but it's still fun to show passengers who are still new to LLMs.

The only people I know of in the UK who will tell you that they use it are performatively alt-right or right wing. The kind of people who say "nanny-state" or "wokerati". GB News viewers. People who have an opinion on Meghan Markle that they think other people need to hear.

It's just an observation but so far a pretty solid correlation. Musk has so severely poisoned the well in terms of his UK reputation that the only people who are open about using Grok are... well, wankers is as good a word as any.

FWIW among the AI-using people, it mostly goes Claude Code, then Codex, then whatever runs on their Mac. The only Cursor user I knew has jumped ship to OpenCode.

losers

If you haven't used it, how do you know if it's winning?

I think it's winning on UI for normies (grok bot) and they made some claims about being pareto SOTA (lowest cost per task completed) a while back with 4.6.

I find it to be a perfectly capable model for implementation (there are many in this class--deepseek flash, spark1.3, luna, etc). I find the usage to be very generous w/ supergrok. I find the model to be just fine for 90% of what I want to do, but I use a smarter model to plan complicated things.

After the cursor aquisition it's become a quite capable coding model. If you take cost into account, it's close to the top. OpenAI is maybe still #1, but I'd put Grok at #2 (again, including cost as a factor).

It's probably the most aligned (to a single person) model out there!

For me it works well for agentic coding tasks and terminal/unix/bash (in cursor and grok build); it's also token efficient and cheaper than gpt 5.6. It's def not as good as Fable for me (I haven't used Astra much, can't comment). So it's not the cheapest, not the most capable, but it has a good mix of it for my backend, go, infra work.

The voice is the same AI slop as the others imho.

(This is about Grok 4.6, I didn't test 4.7 yet).

edit: clarified I mean agentic coding tasks