Creatine uptake enhances antitumor immunity (cell.com)

126 points by lormayna 3 hours ago

rgbrgb 3 hours ago

worth noting that there’s evidence both ways… tumor cells may like it too:

- Loo et al. 2015 found color cancer cells can use it as fuel and blocking the creatine cut metastasis in mice [0]

- zhang et al 20921 found it promoting mouse colon and breast cancer models [1]

not an expert in any way, but i’m guessing it depends on cancer type and there doesn’t seem to be human data either way. as a cautious person w a lot of familial cancer, i cycled off after i looked into it.

[0]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25601461/

[1]: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cmet.2021.03.009

nsbk 3 hours ago

This is such a crazy substance. I'm 43 and I feel like I have more energy than I have ever had before. I started taking it during recovery from a bad ankle fracture since it helps building muscle mass. Once the ankle was better I took up CrossFit, and kept on taking creatine because why not, it helps replenish ATP so I will be able to give the extra-push when working out, I thought.

What is blowing my mind though is that at $dayjob my team is going through a crazy crunch to deliver a very strategic project and some of us are pushing 10-12h days often. I'm in hour 12 today for the second day in a row, and my head is not tired at all. Turns out the brain also uses a lot of ATP too, specially during demanding cognitive tasks so I guess it is creatine that is keeping the engine running smoothly even after so many hours.

I will like once every week or two have a poor night sleep. These days I take twice the dose and I don't feel like I'm sleep deprived at all. Feels like cheating! And apparently no side effects at all so far. Well, maybe I'm working too much.

torben-friis 2 hours ago

Mind that, while the "creatine high dose to fight drowsiness" hack works and has no side effects (other than upset stomachs), the lost sleep still does it thing. You don't notice day to day but it will catch up to you eventually in many bad ways.

nsbk 2 hours ago

Definitely! I would not recommend it to make up for lack of sleep for extended periods of time.

One of the things I'm trying to do better lately is to have a good sleep hygiene. Sun in the eyes early in the morning, no caffeine for the first 60 waking minutes of the day (adenosine absorption period), no screens 2 hours before bed and whatnot. Still, some nights I will just wake up in the middle of the night and won't be able to get back to sleep, then it's when I feel creatine helps

Edit: Typo

leptons 2 hours ago

meowface an hour ago

It has an especially noticeable effect if you're a vegetarian. I'm a lifelong vegetarian, and high doses of it for me are a crazy cognitive enhancer.

mpalczewski an hour ago

That's because creatine is missing in vegetarian diets. It is found in beef. Something to consider if you are thinking about going vegetarian.

nsbk an hour ago

Oh I’ve been mostly plant based for years, maybe that helps explaining the difference

suriyaG 2 hours ago

is it possible that this is the bump due to your workouts and not plainly creatine ?

I take creatine daily but when I'm working out more than a couple of weeks, i feel much better than on weeks when I skip working out.

nsbk 2 hours ago

The overall fitness is going to definitely have a positive effect on the perceived energy levels (my Vo2 max is at its highest ever). On the other hand, I have been very fit at other times in my life but have never experienced this "my head can just go on" feeling before. I used to take conscious breaks, do NSDR between meetings and other energy-replenishing tricks because I __needed__ them. It feels like now I don't

n4r9 2 hours ago

usern20260720 2 hours ago

great question. Can I take creatine and skip the workout hassle?

canucker2016 26 minutes ago

striking 2 hours ago

michelb 2 hours ago

coldtea an hour ago

coldtea an hour ago

>I'm 43 and I feel like I have more energy than I have ever had before. I started taking it during recovery from a bad ankle fracture / Once the ankle was better I took up CrossFit, and kept on taking creatine because why not

And how do you know it's the creatine and not ...taking up CrossFit and the benefits to energy and cognitive function exercize brings?

iamacyborg 42 minutes ago

I take creatine daily, have done for well over a year. I also run 5-6 days a week and lift twice a week.

I’ve previously stopped taking it for a couple months and noticed no real difference in physical or mental ability.

ffsm8 37 minutes ago

You may not have taken enough. You need 15-20g/day for mental benefits. And long term, at least 2+ weeks.

treetalker 3 minutes ago

iamacyborg 9 minutes ago

UltraSane 37 minutes ago

The only difference I notice is a small increase in muscle strength after taking it for a month or so.

AaronAPU an hour ago

I’m 45 and work out a lot and feel this way without creatine. To the point that this makes me worry it would exacerbate my existing sleep issues (I literally never feel sleepy, I feel exactly the same 24 hours a day).

striking 2 hours ago

Any tips on GI impact? I pair mine with food and lots of water and it's improved but wondering if there's any more I should be doing

monkpit 2 hours ago

Some people report less GI distress with creatine HCL but it’s much more expensive.

The GI issues are caused by the creatine absorbing water. This causes your gut to have more water than usual as it follows the creatine through the works… which causes… urgency.

The effect diminishes after you’ve been taking a regular dose for a while, even with just monogydrate (not HCL).

Some people say HCL causes less distress because it doesn’t draw water as much. Others argue that defeats the purpose of taking it.

Monohydrate is studied to death and proven effective, HCL not so much.

kenhwang an hour ago

drop_star an hour ago

Anything over 5g is hard on my stomach. I take it in my protein shake in the morning and dont notice any issues.

leptons 2 hours ago

I took double the dose once and I regretted it. I was in the bathroom pretty often that day.

lr4444lr 2 hours ago

Do you take the standard 5g or something else? What's your weight?

nsbk 2 hours ago

~5g most days, ~10g if I didn't sleep well. I'm currently 68kg

eecks 29 minutes ago

leptons 2 hours ago

Have you tried stopping creatine? How do you know it's the creatine?

I've been taking it for almost a month and I plan to stop to see if I notice any change back that would make me want to start taking creatine again.

locallost an hour ago

Creatine is one of the few if not the only supplements we actually know work. But with that said, my experience is that the bump is there but not world changing. Although it could be placebo, I don't think so because the first time I started taking it I noticed something but didn't make the connection because I noticed it playing basketball and not as much lifting. I could just sprint a lot easier. I recently started taking it again and again I noticed I can sprint easier and not be as spent. Of course you can improve by simply working out regularly, but IMHO the bump you get is obvious.

j45 2 hours ago

It's beyond crazy, lol. How many grams are you doing a day?

It has replaced in some ways caffeine for me.

The part of where creatine wipes out sleep deficit sounded like a stretch, but it definitely helps.

trallnag 2 hours ago

And this is surely thanks to Creatine. Amazing!

jeffybefffy519 8 minutes ago

Heres a question, this threat is interesting and OpenAI is saying they are at AGI with Astra.... so can we give Astra all the papers on creatine, and all the anecdotal evidence in this thread and get it to produce any new insights to answer why people have different experiences, and why theres some reports of it being cancer fighting and why theres some that arent...?

Just feel if we are at AGI, and its amazing then we should be able to do our own research with it on these topics...

macbem 7 minutes ago

what's stopping you?

robotsquidward 3 hours ago

- Enhances ANTI-tumor... sounds good - ANTI-tumor immunity... sounds bad? - Read first few paragraphs as a typical medical rube, got nowhere

So, creatine = good?

dessimus 3 hours ago

"But you get your choice of toppings." "That's good!" "The toppings contain potassium benzoate... ...that's bad."

pak9rabid 2 hours ago

Can I go now?

el_benhameen 3 hours ago

Don’t worry, if you aren’t confused enough there’s also this to send you through another cycle! https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33811821/

goda90 an hour ago

That link sent me into a neverending redirect and reCAPTCHA loop, so very confused.

ffsm8 26 minutes ago

HedonicEscal8r 3 hours ago

"Immunity" = "immune system activity." "Anti-tumor immunity" = "immune system activity against tumors."

pinkmuffinere 2 hours ago

Thankyou!! I'm sure if you have experience in the medical space this sort of thing seems obvious, but to me (non-medical), the original phrasing was so confusing. Your explanation makes sense.

readthenotes1 3 hours ago

Original title may be clearer?

Creatine uptake promotes dendritic cell activation and enhances antitumor immunity

lormayna 3 hours ago

Original title is too long, I had to shorten it

gbil 3 hours ago

I mean the summary ends with pretty clear message

> …and support the use of creatine supplementation as a strategy to augment DC-based cancer immunotherapy.

So it seems that from this research the outcome is indeed creatine = good

adammarples 3 hours ago

Anti-missile shielding

MarkusWandel 2 hours ago

I started taking a scoop of the Creatine Hydrate from Costco every afternoon because why not. Wife had bought it and the bag was sitting right there.

I honestly don't know whether it made a difference. Sleep didn't get worse, no noticeable metabolic effects. Possibly the "perma tired muscles" I've been suffering from increasingly since about age 57 (I'm an active cyclist) have gotten a bit better, with <50% of days affected rather than >90% last year, but even that is subjective.

If "taking the stuff" means "more uptake" (does it?) and there are other beneficial effects, bring it on.

BlackRabbit1 2 hours ago

If you start lifting weight at the gym you quickly will feel the difference: your muscles recover much better during the set breaks.

calmbonsai 2 hours ago

I can concur on the short-term benefits for longer sets as well as the shorter recovery. Creatine is just one of those no-brainer supplements.

It's safe, cheap, and long-term-study proven to be extremely effective.

You will want to increase your daily hydration (at least for otherwise healthy men, a good sign is that you're "peeing clear") as Creatine does increase water retention.

peab 2 hours ago

any recommendation for tendon/joint pain? I'm in my early 30s, and try to lift regularly, but my joints/tendons seem to be the limiting factor when lifting, and not really muscle tiredness/soreness

iamacyborg 13 minutes ago

philipp-gayret 2 hours ago

10xDev 42 minutes ago

cyphax 2 hours ago

giardini an hour ago

anarticle 2 hours ago

b112 2 hours ago

samuelknight 2 hours ago

It has a noticeable effect if you lift.

j45 2 hours ago

Creatine is one of the most studied supplements.

It sounds you have the hardest part of it underway - consistency.

There's lots of studies - if you can get over 20g per day it is noticeable to the brain and energy. Adding a few grams a week until you're up there I found it noticeable. 20-30g seems to be a noticeable range.

Supplements aren't always like a coffee spike, they build up and sustain quite well.

Yajirobe 2 hours ago

I thought around 5g is the recommended daily dose?

kenhwang 2 hours ago

j45 an hour ago

wetwater an hour ago

With so much publishing fraud, low quality of publishing and bogus peer review, I am hard pressed to believe anything that comes out of these journals. I was highly disappointed after reading about Dana-Farber Cancer Institute publishing fraud that endangered so many people lives. Specially papers with 'dietary' research, which are even more bogus. So if someone says, eat X to reduce chance of cancer, I'd ask them to take X put it back where the sun don’t shine.

comrade1234 an hour ago

Cell is not one of "these journals". Publishing to Cell, Nature, Science used to guarantee tenure track for a young professor although I'm not sure if that's still the case.

wetwater 35 minutes ago

I know that used to be the case. But its unfortunately not anymore. I am currently In RF and working on some resonators and waveguides. Recently I had the displeasure of reading some papers from top journals to survey what are some new designs that are being pursued. I was highly disappointed by the low bar of publishing. No characterisation of design, no repeatability study, no comsol files, no fringe field study. Most of the papers read like "we came up with design, tested it with the lowest hanging usecase and there are the results attached with a basic smith chart we made". How am I supposed to have any confidence in anything that is being published like this . The point of public funded research is so I don’t have to research and I can take that research and use/engineer it. But If this is the output then I am not going to spend money and time to do studies to figure out if someone else's research is viable or not because the peer review is broken and publishing bar is in the grave.

fy20 3 hours ago

Note that they gave the mice 10mg per day, which is around 3g per day for a 70kg human - i.e. a normal dose.

herbertgreen an hour ago

I take creatine almost daily for close to 20 years now. Blood work is always perfect. Hours of strength training, cycling and running every week, though.

This might be the best supplement. People over 40 needs CoQ10 (ubiquinol) as well. The energy boost is crazy (I also combine with PQQ, but it's not really proven). Lugol iodine is also the cheapest best supplement ever.

ThouYS 3 hours ago

The whole creatine craze reminds me of Vitamin D a couple of years ago. Which also sounded harmless, but can go very wrong if not careful

BugsJustFindMe 3 hours ago

> but can go very wrong if not careful

This is vague and doesn't explain anything. Can you share any references that communicate what you're thinking about?

nkozyra 3 hours ago

They're talking about vitamin D, which accumulates due to being fat soluble and is indeed toxic at a certain level[1]

It became something of a panacea nutrient, recently around COVID.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D_toxicity

mhurron 2 hours ago

nomel 3 hours ago

kenhwang 3 hours ago

drop_star 3 hours ago

nkozyra 3 hours ago

Unless you have specific issues, creatine is pretty easily excreted in excess, unlike fat-soluble vitamin D.

This doesn't mean you can just pound it, but for the most part it just becomes waste product.

patternMachine 2 hours ago

Craze? People have been taking creatine for decades. It's really well studied and is quite safe.

oxidant 2 hours ago

I saw someone handing out samples of creatine at Costco the other day, spouting all sorts of stuff like it's a wonder drug.

It's definitely becoming mainstream.

I've taken it off and on for the past 15 years, the most noticeable effect is about 5lbs of weight gain. I do think it helps gym performance and the increased water retention mames for better muscle definition.

goda90 36 minutes ago

tedggh 2 hours ago

You definitely want to take breaks from Creatine. It’s not something people should take year around.

hbn 2 hours ago

I understood the idea that you need to cycle creatine to be a myth.

happyopossum 2 hours ago

Citation please? Creatine is one of the most studied modern supplements, and I have yet to see anything that says to you'd need to 'take breaks' from it...

ortusdux 3 hours ago

Are there risks to creatine?

mkotlikov 2 hours ago

As it was mentioned elsewhere it might make existing cancers worse, and decrease survivability. Cancer seems to love it.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25601461/ https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cmet.2021.03.009

More accessible video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcMgHncZVIw

delecti 35 minutes ago

Anecdotally, it makes me feel like crap and significantly increased hair shedding. I've seen attestations of both side effects online as well. No idea how or why it could cause either, and the crumminess at least significantly improved very quickly after stopping it. Neither side effect seems to be especially common though.

littlecranky67 an hour ago

Not risks but sideeffects that might affect you. I just decided to cut creatine out during summer months, as I sweat significantly more when on creatine (and pee of course, but that is manageable). Now I already sweat more than average joe based on my genetics (yes, I had that checked out by a doctor) but on creatine it became really annoying during hot season. Since creatine definitely allows me to lift heavier and progress, I will just plan around that and put cutting/maintenance phases into the hot season off-creatine, and go back to supplementing it the rest of the year.

BunsanSpace 3 hours ago

Generally no, it's expensively studied and has had daily consumption to be safe for upto 5 years at least (studies haven't generally gone longer).

That being said some people do have adverse effects to supplementation, e.g. excessive water retention, bloating, stomach discomfort, &c.

So try it, if you have a bad reaction stop.

luke5441 3 hours ago

I get severe cramping from it (reproducible). All I can find are papers about this being a myth and some reddit threads about other people having this.

kenhwang 3 hours ago

I get it too if I don't drink a lot more water. So did many people on my sports team.

Creatine binds to water (making less water available to your muscles) and allows your muscles to work harder (which makes them need more water). So if you're not drinking a lot more water when you're taking creatine, you will get cramps from either dehydration and/or muscle overuse.

But once you're past the loading phase for creatine and getting sufficient hydration, it's supposed to lessen cramps because the water bound to creatine also becomes available for use again as the creatine is used by the body.

luke5441 2 hours ago

kelseyfrog 2 hours ago

er4hn 3 hours ago

I get this unless I drink a lot of water. About 48 fl oz seems to be the right amount for 10g creatine. Sometimes this needs to be combined with a light snack, like a handful of nuts.

andy_ppp 3 hours ago

Did you try different sources I do not trust some of the stuff out there and often wonder if these supplements aren’t just generic white powder…

luke5441 2 hours ago

HedonicEscal8r 3 hours ago

Essentially none. Creatine supplementation is a good idea for most people, especially vegans/vegetarians.

flossly 3 hours ago

Why especially those?

dgacmu 3 hours ago

hobo123 3 hours ago

eknkc 3 hours ago

iamdev 3 hours ago

hagbard_c 3 hours ago

unethical_ban 3 hours ago

asdff 3 hours ago

It can make you hold more water weight so you should drink more water in response.

shawnwall 2 hours ago

i personally have problems with tinnitus and hearing loss, and creatine use tends to trigger it due to water retention so i stay off the stuff.

asdff 2 hours ago

ddoolin 3 hours ago

Potentially lots poopies.

dilyevsky 3 hours ago

Worse beach looks

nkozyra 3 hours ago

Creatine causes intramuscular water increases, not subcutaneous. Doesn't actually have a negative impact here.

colechristensen 3 hours ago

Excessively large doses make your stomach and perhaps your kidneys unhappy and supplements being lightly regulated there may be purity issues where the risk is what else is in it.

But it's pretty safe at recommended doses.

pow_ext 3 hours ago

None

shevy-java an hour ago

So, creatine and creatine-phosphate are used in particular by muscle cells for quick energy re-supply.

I would be highly sceptical of the claim "antitumor immunity". It sounds like an ad.

mbil 2 hours ago

Before you get scooping, see also "Caffeine and progression of Parkinson’s disease: A deleterious interaction with creatine" https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4573899/

Mr_Eri_Atlov an hour ago

Real question, if Creatine is actually this good, what product specifically are people using?

MrJagil 3 hours ago

related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48346947

(I regret posting that blog post, but the study and discussion is interesting)

dyauspitr 3 hours ago

So what’s the latest? That everyone should take creatine and GLP-1s?

irl_zebra 2 hours ago

Near as I can parse it, as a very, very anti-woo person, is as follows:

In a healthy individual with a balanced diet and no deficiencies, there are essentially zero supplements that do anything whatsoever to a measurable degree. Essentially the entire supplement aisle at Whole Foods or whatever is completely woo and useless, and any advertisements are someone trying to make money from you, or some mindless viral craze with no evidence. The exception to this general rule is omega 3s (fish oil is great for this, algae oil is even better given potential heavy metals in fish), protein supplementation if you're weightlifting, and creatine. GLP-1s are a wonder drug that are great if you are not a healthy individual and wish to be.

solumos 3 hours ago

Adverse side effects of creatine are generally less severe than GLP-1s

creaturemachine 3 hours ago

With a peptide chaser.

dyauspitr 3 hours ago

I wasn’t being facetious. I seriously am asking if everyone should actually take creatinine and GLP-1.

graboy 2 hours ago

steinvakt2 2 hours ago

EA-3167 3 hours ago

Please remember that this is a study not the ads and pop-sci articles usually posted here. That means it’s meant to elucidate at most some biological pathways and not to present an overall recommendation. Maybe creatine has strong anti-tumor activity through one pathway and strongly tumor-promoting impacts elsewhere.

Please… just read it as the isolated and interesting insight into biology that it is. It’s a fascinating in vitro result that shows a potentially important role for creatinine in a certain immune response.

deadbabe 3 hours ago

There’s just so much evidence that creatine is something people should take daily, and now this?

carrja99 3 hours ago

I’ve taken to snorting it. Straight to the brain it goes!

ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 3 hours ago

you joke, but that is a real issue for some

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_creatine_deficiency

asdff 3 hours ago

I've been smoking mine

gkhartman 3 hours ago

...in mice.

asdff 3 hours ago

As it turns out, no one lets you generate mutant human embryos with deficient creatine receptors, grow them up into adult humans, inject them with melanoma, euthanize them and harvest the tumor cell mass and bone marrow for analysis.

bayesic 2 hours ago

Unhelpful. Sure, we can't do the same study in humans, but that doesn't mean the results are inherently applicable to humans

gbil 3 hours ago

Did you read it at all?

> Notably, creatine uptake similarly boosted the activation and immunostimulatory function of human monocyte-derived DCs.

gkhartman 2 hours ago

Fair. Missed that bit tbh.

embedding-shape 3 hours ago

Imagine how healthy mice in general could live, if they were able to read all these research papers about themselves.

zafka 3 hours ago

Now I am imagining a 501-C where school children are encouraged to read studies to mice. Children get better at reading technical papers, mice learn more about their options! Win Win!

hagbard_c 3 hours ago

They already do in their own dimension, all that dying and running down the wrong track in those mazes is just to befuddle us silly hominids.

Source: https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Mice

rzzzt 3 hours ago

I, for one, welcome our future inmice overlords.