Creatine uptake enhances antitumor immunity (cell.com)
126 points by lormayna 3 hours ago
rgbrgb 3 hours ago
worth noting that there’s evidence both ways… tumor cells may like it too:
- Loo et al. 2015 found color cancer cells can use it as fuel and blocking the creatine cut metastasis in mice [0]
- zhang et al 20921 found it promoting mouse colon and breast cancer models [1]
not an expert in any way, but i’m guessing it depends on cancer type and there doesn’t seem to be human data either way. as a cautious person w a lot of familial cancer, i cycled off after i looked into it.
rgbrenner 2 hours ago
nsbk 3 hours ago
This is such a crazy substance. I'm 43 and I feel like I have more energy than I have ever had before. I started taking it during recovery from a bad ankle fracture since it helps building muscle mass. Once the ankle was better I took up CrossFit, and kept on taking creatine because why not, it helps replenish ATP so I will be able to give the extra-push when working out, I thought.
What is blowing my mind though is that at $dayjob my team is going through a crazy crunch to deliver a very strategic project and some of us are pushing 10-12h days often. I'm in hour 12 today for the second day in a row, and my head is not tired at all. Turns out the brain also uses a lot of ATP too, specially during demanding cognitive tasks so I guess it is creatine that is keeping the engine running smoothly even after so many hours.
I will like once every week or two have a poor night sleep. These days I take twice the dose and I don't feel like I'm sleep deprived at all. Feels like cheating! And apparently no side effects at all so far. Well, maybe I'm working too much.
torben-friis 2 hours ago
Mind that, while the "creatine high dose to fight drowsiness" hack works and has no side effects (other than upset stomachs), the lost sleep still does it thing. You don't notice day to day but it will catch up to you eventually in many bad ways.
nsbk 2 hours ago
Definitely! I would not recommend it to make up for lack of sleep for extended periods of time.
One of the things I'm trying to do better lately is to have a good sleep hygiene. Sun in the eyes early in the morning, no caffeine for the first 60 waking minutes of the day (adenosine absorption period), no screens 2 hours before bed and whatnot. Still, some nights I will just wake up in the middle of the night and won't be able to get back to sleep, then it's when I feel creatine helps
Edit: Typo
leptons 2 hours ago
meowface an hour ago
It has an especially noticeable effect if you're a vegetarian. I'm a lifelong vegetarian, and high doses of it for me are a crazy cognitive enhancer.
mpalczewski an hour ago
That's because creatine is missing in vegetarian diets. It is found in beef. Something to consider if you are thinking about going vegetarian.
nsbk an hour ago
Oh I’ve been mostly plant based for years, maybe that helps explaining the difference
suriyaG 2 hours ago
is it possible that this is the bump due to your workouts and not plainly creatine ?
I take creatine daily but when I'm working out more than a couple of weeks, i feel much better than on weeks when I skip working out.
nsbk 2 hours ago
The overall fitness is going to definitely have a positive effect on the perceived energy levels (my Vo2 max is at its highest ever). On the other hand, I have been very fit at other times in my life but have never experienced this "my head can just go on" feeling before. I used to take conscious breaks, do NSDR between meetings and other energy-replenishing tricks because I __needed__ them. It feels like now I don't
n4r9 2 hours ago
usern20260720 2 hours ago
great question. Can I take creatine and skip the workout hassle?
canucker2016 26 minutes ago
striking 2 hours ago
michelb 2 hours ago
coldtea an hour ago
coldtea an hour ago
>I'm 43 and I feel like I have more energy than I have ever had before. I started taking it during recovery from a bad ankle fracture / Once the ankle was better I took up CrossFit, and kept on taking creatine because why not
And how do you know it's the creatine and not ...taking up CrossFit and the benefits to energy and cognitive function exercize brings?
iamacyborg 42 minutes ago
I take creatine daily, have done for well over a year. I also run 5-6 days a week and lift twice a week.
I’ve previously stopped taking it for a couple months and noticed no real difference in physical or mental ability.
ffsm8 37 minutes ago
You may not have taken enough. You need 15-20g/day for mental benefits. And long term, at least 2+ weeks.
treetalker 3 minutes ago
iamacyborg 9 minutes ago
UltraSane 37 minutes ago
The only difference I notice is a small increase in muscle strength after taking it for a month or so.
AaronAPU an hour ago
I’m 45 and work out a lot and feel this way without creatine. To the point that this makes me worry it would exacerbate my existing sleep issues (I literally never feel sleepy, I feel exactly the same 24 hours a day).
striking 2 hours ago
Any tips on GI impact? I pair mine with food and lots of water and it's improved but wondering if there's any more I should be doing
monkpit 2 hours ago
Some people report less GI distress with creatine HCL but it’s much more expensive.
The GI issues are caused by the creatine absorbing water. This causes your gut to have more water than usual as it follows the creatine through the works… which causes… urgency.
The effect diminishes after you’ve been taking a regular dose for a while, even with just monogydrate (not HCL).
Some people say HCL causes less distress because it doesn’t draw water as much. Others argue that defeats the purpose of taking it.
Monohydrate is studied to death and proven effective, HCL not so much.
kenhwang an hour ago
drop_star an hour ago
Anything over 5g is hard on my stomach. I take it in my protein shake in the morning and dont notice any issues.
leptons 2 hours ago
I took double the dose once and I regretted it. I was in the bathroom pretty often that day.
lr4444lr 2 hours ago
Do you take the standard 5g or something else? What's your weight?
nsbk 2 hours ago
~5g most days, ~10g if I didn't sleep well. I'm currently 68kg
eecks 29 minutes ago
leptons 2 hours ago
Have you tried stopping creatine? How do you know it's the creatine?
I've been taking it for almost a month and I plan to stop to see if I notice any change back that would make me want to start taking creatine again.
locallost an hour ago
Creatine is one of the few if not the only supplements we actually know work. But with that said, my experience is that the bump is there but not world changing. Although it could be placebo, I don't think so because the first time I started taking it I noticed something but didn't make the connection because I noticed it playing basketball and not as much lifting. I could just sprint a lot easier. I recently started taking it again and again I noticed I can sprint easier and not be as spent. Of course you can improve by simply working out regularly, but IMHO the bump you get is obvious.
j45 2 hours ago
It's beyond crazy, lol. How many grams are you doing a day?
It has replaced in some ways caffeine for me.
The part of where creatine wipes out sleep deficit sounded like a stretch, but it definitely helps.
trallnag 2 hours ago
And this is surely thanks to Creatine. Amazing!
jeffybefffy519 8 minutes ago
Heres a question, this threat is interesting and OpenAI is saying they are at AGI with Astra.... so can we give Astra all the papers on creatine, and all the anecdotal evidence in this thread and get it to produce any new insights to answer why people have different experiences, and why theres some reports of it being cancer fighting and why theres some that arent...?
Just feel if we are at AGI, and its amazing then we should be able to do our own research with it on these topics...
macbem 7 minutes ago
what's stopping you?
robotsquidward 3 hours ago
- Enhances ANTI-tumor... sounds good - ANTI-tumor immunity... sounds bad? - Read first few paragraphs as a typical medical rube, got nowhere
So, creatine = good?
dessimus 3 hours ago
"But you get your choice of toppings." "That's good!" "The toppings contain potassium benzoate... ...that's bad."
pak9rabid 2 hours ago
Can I go now?
el_benhameen 3 hours ago
Don’t worry, if you aren’t confused enough there’s also this to send you through another cycle! https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33811821/
goda90 an hour ago
That link sent me into a neverending redirect and reCAPTCHA loop, so very confused.
ffsm8 26 minutes ago
HedonicEscal8r 3 hours ago
"Immunity" = "immune system activity." "Anti-tumor immunity" = "immune system activity against tumors."
pinkmuffinere 2 hours ago
Thankyou!! I'm sure if you have experience in the medical space this sort of thing seems obvious, but to me (non-medical), the original phrasing was so confusing. Your explanation makes sense.
readthenotes1 3 hours ago
Original title may be clearer?
Creatine uptake promotes dendritic cell activation and enhances antitumor immunity
lormayna 3 hours ago
Original title is too long, I had to shorten it
gbil 3 hours ago
I mean the summary ends with pretty clear message
> …and support the use of creatine supplementation as a strategy to augment DC-based cancer immunotherapy.
So it seems that from this research the outcome is indeed creatine = good
adammarples 3 hours ago
Anti-missile shielding
MarkusWandel 2 hours ago
I started taking a scoop of the Creatine Hydrate from Costco every afternoon because why not. Wife had bought it and the bag was sitting right there.
I honestly don't know whether it made a difference. Sleep didn't get worse, no noticeable metabolic effects. Possibly the "perma tired muscles" I've been suffering from increasingly since about age 57 (I'm an active cyclist) have gotten a bit better, with <50% of days affected rather than >90% last year, but even that is subjective.
If "taking the stuff" means "more uptake" (does it?) and there are other beneficial effects, bring it on.
BlackRabbit1 2 hours ago
If you start lifting weight at the gym you quickly will feel the difference: your muscles recover much better during the set breaks.
calmbonsai 2 hours ago
I can concur on the short-term benefits for longer sets as well as the shorter recovery. Creatine is just one of those no-brainer supplements.
It's safe, cheap, and long-term-study proven to be extremely effective.
You will want to increase your daily hydration (at least for otherwise healthy men, a good sign is that you're "peeing clear") as Creatine does increase water retention.
peab 2 hours ago
any recommendation for tendon/joint pain? I'm in my early 30s, and try to lift regularly, but my joints/tendons seem to be the limiting factor when lifting, and not really muscle tiredness/soreness
iamacyborg 13 minutes ago
philipp-gayret 2 hours ago
10xDev 42 minutes ago
cyphax 2 hours ago
giardini an hour ago
anarticle 2 hours ago
b112 2 hours ago
samuelknight 2 hours ago
It has a noticeable effect if you lift.
j45 2 hours ago
Creatine is one of the most studied supplements.
It sounds you have the hardest part of it underway - consistency.
There's lots of studies - if you can get over 20g per day it is noticeable to the brain and energy. Adding a few grams a week until you're up there I found it noticeable. 20-30g seems to be a noticeable range.
Supplements aren't always like a coffee spike, they build up and sustain quite well.
Yajirobe 2 hours ago
I thought around 5g is the recommended daily dose?
kenhwang 2 hours ago
j45 an hour ago
wetwater an hour ago
With so much publishing fraud, low quality of publishing and bogus peer review, I am hard pressed to believe anything that comes out of these journals. I was highly disappointed after reading about Dana-Farber Cancer Institute publishing fraud that endangered so many people lives. Specially papers with 'dietary' research, which are even more bogus. So if someone says, eat X to reduce chance of cancer, I'd ask them to take X put it back where the sun don’t shine.
comrade1234 an hour ago
Cell is not one of "these journals". Publishing to Cell, Nature, Science used to guarantee tenure track for a young professor although I'm not sure if that's still the case.
wetwater 35 minutes ago
I know that used to be the case. But its unfortunately not anymore. I am currently In RF and working on some resonators and waveguides. Recently I had the displeasure of reading some papers from top journals to survey what are some new designs that are being pursued. I was highly disappointed by the low bar of publishing. No characterisation of design, no repeatability study, no comsol files, no fringe field study. Most of the papers read like "we came up with design, tested it with the lowest hanging usecase and there are the results attached with a basic smith chart we made". How am I supposed to have any confidence in anything that is being published like this . The point of public funded research is so I don’t have to research and I can take that research and use/engineer it. But If this is the output then I am not going to spend money and time to do studies to figure out if someone else's research is viable or not because the peer review is broken and publishing bar is in the grave.
fy20 3 hours ago
Note that they gave the mice 10mg per day, which is around 3g per day for a 70kg human - i.e. a normal dose.
herbertgreen an hour ago
I take creatine almost daily for close to 20 years now. Blood work is always perfect. Hours of strength training, cycling and running every week, though.
This might be the best supplement. People over 40 needs CoQ10 (ubiquinol) as well. The energy boost is crazy (I also combine with PQQ, but it's not really proven). Lugol iodine is also the cheapest best supplement ever.
ThouYS 3 hours ago
The whole creatine craze reminds me of Vitamin D a couple of years ago. Which also sounded harmless, but can go very wrong if not careful
BugsJustFindMe 3 hours ago
> but can go very wrong if not careful
This is vague and doesn't explain anything. Can you share any references that communicate what you're thinking about?
nkozyra 3 hours ago
They're talking about vitamin D, which accumulates due to being fat soluble and is indeed toxic at a certain level[1]
It became something of a panacea nutrient, recently around COVID.
mhurron 2 hours ago
nomel 3 hours ago
kenhwang 3 hours ago
drop_star 3 hours ago
nkozyra 3 hours ago
Unless you have specific issues, creatine is pretty easily excreted in excess, unlike fat-soluble vitamin D.
This doesn't mean you can just pound it, but for the most part it just becomes waste product.
patternMachine 2 hours ago
Craze? People have been taking creatine for decades. It's really well studied and is quite safe.
oxidant 2 hours ago
I saw someone handing out samples of creatine at Costco the other day, spouting all sorts of stuff like it's a wonder drug.
It's definitely becoming mainstream.
I've taken it off and on for the past 15 years, the most noticeable effect is about 5lbs of weight gain. I do think it helps gym performance and the increased water retention mames for better muscle definition.
goda90 36 minutes ago
tedggh 2 hours ago
You definitely want to take breaks from Creatine. It’s not something people should take year around.
hbn 2 hours ago
I understood the idea that you need to cycle creatine to be a myth.
happyopossum 2 hours ago
Citation please? Creatine is one of the most studied modern supplements, and I have yet to see anything that says to you'd need to 'take breaks' from it...
ortusdux 3 hours ago
Are there risks to creatine?
mkotlikov 2 hours ago
As it was mentioned elsewhere it might make existing cancers worse, and decrease survivability. Cancer seems to love it.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25601461/ https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cmet.2021.03.009
More accessible video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcMgHncZVIw
delecti 35 minutes ago
Anecdotally, it makes me feel like crap and significantly increased hair shedding. I've seen attestations of both side effects online as well. No idea how or why it could cause either, and the crumminess at least significantly improved very quickly after stopping it. Neither side effect seems to be especially common though.
littlecranky67 an hour ago
Not risks but sideeffects that might affect you. I just decided to cut creatine out during summer months, as I sweat significantly more when on creatine (and pee of course, but that is manageable). Now I already sweat more than average joe based on my genetics (yes, I had that checked out by a doctor) but on creatine it became really annoying during hot season. Since creatine definitely allows me to lift heavier and progress, I will just plan around that and put cutting/maintenance phases into the hot season off-creatine, and go back to supplementing it the rest of the year.
BunsanSpace 3 hours ago
Generally no, it's expensively studied and has had daily consumption to be safe for upto 5 years at least (studies haven't generally gone longer).
That being said some people do have adverse effects to supplementation, e.g. excessive water retention, bloating, stomach discomfort, &c.
So try it, if you have a bad reaction stop.
ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 3 hours ago
luke5441 3 hours ago
I get severe cramping from it (reproducible). All I can find are papers about this being a myth and some reddit threads about other people having this.
kenhwang 3 hours ago
I get it too if I don't drink a lot more water. So did many people on my sports team.
Creatine binds to water (making less water available to your muscles) and allows your muscles to work harder (which makes them need more water). So if you're not drinking a lot more water when you're taking creatine, you will get cramps from either dehydration and/or muscle overuse.
But once you're past the loading phase for creatine and getting sufficient hydration, it's supposed to lessen cramps because the water bound to creatine also becomes available for use again as the creatine is used by the body.
luke5441 2 hours ago
kelseyfrog 2 hours ago
er4hn 3 hours ago
I get this unless I drink a lot of water. About 48 fl oz seems to be the right amount for 10g creatine. Sometimes this needs to be combined with a light snack, like a handful of nuts.
andy_ppp 3 hours ago
Did you try different sources I do not trust some of the stuff out there and often wonder if these supplements aren’t just generic white powder…
luke5441 2 hours ago
HedonicEscal8r 3 hours ago
Essentially none. Creatine supplementation is a good idea for most people, especially vegans/vegetarians.
flossly 3 hours ago
Why especially those?
dgacmu 3 hours ago
hobo123 3 hours ago
eknkc 3 hours ago
iamdev 3 hours ago
hagbard_c 3 hours ago
unethical_ban 3 hours ago
asdff 3 hours ago
It can make you hold more water weight so you should drink more water in response.
shawnwall 2 hours ago
i personally have problems with tinnitus and hearing loss, and creatine use tends to trigger it due to water retention so i stay off the stuff.
asdff 2 hours ago
ddoolin 3 hours ago
Potentially lots poopies.
dilyevsky 3 hours ago
Worse beach looks
nkozyra 3 hours ago
Creatine causes intramuscular water increases, not subcutaneous. Doesn't actually have a negative impact here.
colechristensen 3 hours ago
Excessively large doses make your stomach and perhaps your kidneys unhappy and supplements being lightly regulated there may be purity issues where the risk is what else is in it.
But it's pretty safe at recommended doses.
pow_ext 3 hours ago
None
shevy-java an hour ago
So, creatine and creatine-phosphate are used in particular by muscle cells for quick energy re-supply.
I would be highly sceptical of the claim "antitumor immunity". It sounds like an ad.
mbil 2 hours ago
Before you get scooping, see also "Caffeine and progression of Parkinson’s disease: A deleterious interaction with creatine" https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4573899/
Mr_Eri_Atlov an hour ago
Real question, if Creatine is actually this good, what product specifically are people using?
MrJagil 3 hours ago
related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48346947
(I regret posting that blog post, but the study and discussion is interesting)
dyauspitr 3 hours ago
So what’s the latest? That everyone should take creatine and GLP-1s?
irl_zebra 2 hours ago
Near as I can parse it, as a very, very anti-woo person, is as follows:
In a healthy individual with a balanced diet and no deficiencies, there are essentially zero supplements that do anything whatsoever to a measurable degree. Essentially the entire supplement aisle at Whole Foods or whatever is completely woo and useless, and any advertisements are someone trying to make money from you, or some mindless viral craze with no evidence. The exception to this general rule is omega 3s (fish oil is great for this, algae oil is even better given potential heavy metals in fish), protein supplementation if you're weightlifting, and creatine. GLP-1s are a wonder drug that are great if you are not a healthy individual and wish to be.
solumos 3 hours ago
Adverse side effects of creatine are generally less severe than GLP-1s
creaturemachine 3 hours ago
With a peptide chaser.
dyauspitr 3 hours ago
I wasn’t being facetious. I seriously am asking if everyone should actually take creatinine and GLP-1.
graboy 2 hours ago
steinvakt2 2 hours ago
EA-3167 3 hours ago
Please remember that this is a study not the ads and pop-sci articles usually posted here. That means it’s meant to elucidate at most some biological pathways and not to present an overall recommendation. Maybe creatine has strong anti-tumor activity through one pathway and strongly tumor-promoting impacts elsewhere.
Please… just read it as the isolated and interesting insight into biology that it is. It’s a fascinating in vitro result that shows a potentially important role for creatinine in a certain immune response.
deadbabe 3 hours ago
There’s just so much evidence that creatine is something people should take daily, and now this?
carrja99 3 hours ago
I’ve taken to snorting it. Straight to the brain it goes!
ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 3 hours ago
you joke, but that is a real issue for some
asdff 3 hours ago
I've been smoking mine
gkhartman 3 hours ago
...in mice.
asdff 3 hours ago
As it turns out, no one lets you generate mutant human embryos with deficient creatine receptors, grow them up into adult humans, inject them with melanoma, euthanize them and harvest the tumor cell mass and bone marrow for analysis.
bayesic 2 hours ago
Unhelpful. Sure, we can't do the same study in humans, but that doesn't mean the results are inherently applicable to humans
gbil 3 hours ago
Did you read it at all?
> Notably, creatine uptake similarly boosted the activation and immunostimulatory function of human monocyte-derived DCs.
gkhartman 2 hours ago
Fair. Missed that bit tbh.
embedding-shape 3 hours ago
Imagine how healthy mice in general could live, if they were able to read all these research papers about themselves.
zafka 3 hours ago
Now I am imagining a 501-C where school children are encouraged to read studies to mice. Children get better at reading technical papers, mice learn more about their options! Win Win!
hagbard_c 3 hours ago
They already do in their own dimension, all that dying and running down the wrong track in those mazes is just to befuddle us silly hominids.
rzzzt 3 hours ago
I, for one, welcome our future inmice overlords.