Memory Companies Have Destroyed the Consumer Market (gamersnexus.net)
77 points by DeepLogin 2 hours ago
glimshe 2 hours ago
Should we blame this on memory companies or the AI companies bidding for memory? How should the memory companies have acted differently?
swdev281634 an hour ago
I think the epic mistake was made by investors and executives who bought tales about imminent super-intelligence about to displace millions of knowledge workers from entire industries replacing them with AI datacentres.
These people are the main reason why AI companies have unlimited funding, and can afford to buy global RAM supply for years in the future despite their expenses exceed revenue by billions.
benced an hour ago
You can short them and make a lot of money (to buy RAM with?) if you feel this way and are correct.
BLKNSLVR 25 minutes ago
dragonwriter 33 minutes ago
demibabs an hour ago
swdev281634 an hour ago
vor_ 21 minutes ago
amelius an hour ago
The main tool to fix this is to forbid companies to sell below cost price. It is part of antitrust law.
dist-epoch an hour ago
The same thing was said 4 years ago about NVIDIA on HN, that it's stock it's outrageously overpriced, given it's $20 bln revenue, that it should have at least 10 times more revenue to justify that stock price, which is fantasy, that there is no plausible way for such demand no matter what you think about GPT-2.
swdev281634 32 minutes ago
elzbardico 13 minutes ago
CBLT 2 hours ago
I'd come at this from a different angle: we still want this to be market system, so we need to make this priced into the market. How can we price this in?
I would try to solve this by making the market structure reflect the underlying difficulty: we have to decide what capacity to produce years in advance, to construct the memory fabs. So this should be a futures market, and a capacity crunch would affect short-term-futures, but leave full term futures at the same price. Because the companies supplying the memory can just construct more capacity to fill those futures at the same cost regardless of the AI demand.
marcosdumay 25 minutes ago
Well, the best way to solve this problem keeping it a market system is if consumers band together and create a fab that will supply them.
Since almost everybody is a consumer of those companies, I do suggest we reuse the governance system we have that solves other "everybody problems".
paimapi 36 minutes ago
ah yes, adding a futures market to a sector heavily invested in AI certainly won't lead to catastrophic over-speculation that will collapse the industry entire
izacus an hour ago
> How should the memory companies have acted differently?
Same way nVidia did through the crypto insanity - make sure they're supplying enough to the consumer market so it doesn't get completely destroyed and pulls down the other parts of the consumer market they're reliant for long term success.
> Should we blame this on memory companies or the AI companies bidding for memory?
Blame doesn't change the outcomes, neither does it improve the negative consequences. Think in terms of "what does destruction of our consumer market mean for my prosperity?" not "oh, how do defend poor companies again?"
SlightlyLeftPad 2 hours ago
For one, they could have could have not massively scaled back consumer memory manufacturing as a matter of duty to customers. But money and greed must prevail.
Cyan488 an hour ago
Isn't it the case that public companies owe a primary legal/fiduciary duty to shareholders over customers?
The question of choice between a profitable vs unprofitable venture is easy. But yeah, to what extent is choosing profitable instead of VERY profitable a breach of duty to shareholders?
csnover an hour ago
WarmWash 44 minutes ago
elzbardico 6 minutes ago
izacus 44 minutes ago
micromacrofoot an hour ago
micromacrofoot an hour ago
both of them
memory companies could have attempted to protect consumers, at least a little, but the AI money machine goes brrrr
amelius an hour ago
> How should the memory companies have acted differently?
Well if your thesis is that they should have acted differently, then we should blame the laissez-faire capitalists.
eagerpace an hour ago
People have the option of just not buying stuff. I sold my Tesla in 2021 for a stupid price, drove a beater for two years, and bought another new car a couple years later. Now, certainly not everyone has that luxury, but this is computers, not real estate. Prices will crash.
PorciiVorbesc 43 minutes ago
>People have the option of just not buying stuff.
Unless you know, your main and only PC/notebook just died and need a replacement ASAP, they you don't really have an option to not buy. And no, the used market (where I live) is just as fucked, reflecting the retail gouging, with people wanting quite a lot of cash for tower PCs and notebooks from the Pentium 4 - Core 2 Duo era.
> Prices will crash.
Does your crystal ball also say when exactly? If my laptop broke, then I need a replacement now in the overpriced market, not in X years when prices will crash.
twochillin 25 minutes ago
If there were such a crystal ball, the same market doing the gouging would be pricing it in already ;) does suck that "wait and see" is the optimal answer to the average consumer but I guess that's the capitalist hellscape we have wrought
EvanAnderson 27 minutes ago
If this goes on long enough the prices crashing won't matter because the manufacturers of all the other PC hardware will be gone.
I think we're seeing the end of the PC as we know it, personally.
Varelion an hour ago
I hope so. I feel so, so, so terribly guilty for not building my wife a computer for her in 2023. She is rocking a 1080ti, and I really wish I had at least upgraded her system, but now I just straight cannot afford to even consider it, given the price of rent, food, gas, energy, all on top of the actual hardware prices.
And I am a SWE.I am not making bad money. I can't imagine what others are going through.
ASalazarMX 6 minutes ago
I was so lucky to buy a high-end miniPC to replace my home PC for about $1,500 USD in 2025. The same model now sells for more than $8,000 USD, without disk or RAM. Triple that if you match my original disk and RAM buy. Everything got incredibly expensive, not only storage and RAM.
izacus an hour ago
Way to miss the whole point of the article and fail to understand the point. Do you think if significant part of US industry goes bankrupt because they can't source parts for their products, work machines and consumers disappear... you'll still have luxury of running around in a Tesla?
Seattle3503 27 minutes ago
Could this be the opening China needs to get their foot in the door? This feels short sighted.
edude03 5 minutes ago
yeah CMXT is likely to come online in the not too distant future
fhn 7 minutes ago
just stop buying. you people buy way too much crap anyway
pessimizer 44 minutes ago
This comes at a perfect time. The public doesn't need computers, they can just use their phones.
If the consumer had access to this RAM, they might all just run local or semi-local AI. It's important to outbid them so you can rent AI to them, and extract money from them in a million other ways while they use it.
zamadatix 35 minutes ago
Make RAM half the price it was before and you'd still have very few people trying to do local AI on it because it's just so damn slow for the task. Having 12 channels of DDR5 in an Epyc system with NVMe storage is still one of the slowest ways I can run LLMs locally.
ASalazarMX 2 minutes ago
VRAM is the biggest speed factor. Bonus if your system has Unified Memory Architecture instead of dedicated/shared VRAM.
striking 17 minutes ago
Did you dodge the phone price increase somehow? Phones also need RAM (and ambitions of running local models)
Apreche 2 hours ago
Yes, but zoom out more. Wealth inequality and the k-shaped economy are the real culprit.
When a few people have so much wealth that they are no longer price-sensitive, they bid up the price of everything and anything of value be it stocks, real estate, computer hardware, fine arts, sports teams, etc.
The result is that a business which tries to make quality products at reasonable prices will fail. They aren’t luxurious enough for the people with money. They aren’t cheap enough for the people without. Customers in the middle hardly exist. Any valuable good that is genuinely scarce will inevitably become a luxury.
dist-epoch an hour ago
> The DRAM and NAND flash manufacturers at fault for the ongoing RAM, SSD, and GPU price increases
Yes, it's the manufacturers fault, not the unbelievable market demand.
We are all Capitalists, until the Market comes after the stuff we love.
izacus 42 minutes ago
> We are all Capitalists, until the Market comes after the stuff we love.
Anyone with half a brain isn't a "Capitalist" (with a big C, like in your example) which is why every single prosperous nation (including USA) regulates markets to avoid destruction of their prosperity and society.
MrDrMcCoy 11 minutes ago
Colloquial "capitalism" today is just cronyism that in no way resembles the capitalism that Adam Smith wrote about. We really should move towards Rhine Capitalism, the only system that has stood the test of time and truly benefits everyone.
fhn 3 minutes ago
well_ackshually 25 minutes ago
>We are all Capitalists
1/ speak for yourself
2/ where is your capital and your means of production? Your machines? Your factories? Your raw materials, your tools? How long do you survive tomorrow when you quit your job and you have no other income?
You're not a capitalist. You're just a consumer for them to suck dry. The faster you learn it, the better off you will be.
graemep 4 minutes ago
You are right. People are misusing "capitalist" to mean someone who favours a capitalist system, where as it actually means someone who posses capital; someone whose relies on possession of assets rather than earned income.
annoyingnoob 2 hours ago
Same for small business or any small buyer.
mrtksn 24 minutes ago
In the past people just starved to death when someone needed all the resources for their thing. Sounds like improvement.
throwaway81523 42 minutes ago
> Memory companies
Someone misspelled "Altman", https://www.mooreslawisdead.com/post/sam-altman-s-dirty-dram...
xlayn 4 minutes ago
Someone misspelled let's tax ai companies until we get back to balance.