Hittite royal archive found in Turkey (thehistoryblog.com)

328 points by benbreen 16 hours ago

schleck8 11 hours ago

The Hittites were one of the largest empires in the ancient world, but up until the last two centuries, the only proper documentation of them was in the Bible, which is why many historians suspected that they were a fictional civilization.

In 1834, French archaelogist Texier found the ruins of their capital Hattusa in modern day Turkey. But he assumed it was Pteria, a city mentioned in ancient Greek documents.

It took another ~ 70 years for German archaelogist Winckler to realize that this was the Hittite capital, based on clay tablets.

nautikos2 8 hours ago

This is not correct because we don't know what the Hittites called themselves. This civilization, when it was found, was named after the Biblical tribe. There is no relation established between the two.

wl 9 hours ago

The Bible is not proper documentation of the Hittites. All the texts that mention the Hittites post-date the fall of the empire based out of Ḫattuša by centuries. It's an open question whether the Hittites of the Bible refer to Ḫattuša or "Neo-Hittites" better described as Luwian-Aramean.

schleck8 9 hours ago

> All the texts that mention the Hittites post-date the fall of the empire based out of Ḫattuša by centuries

I don't see how this would invalidate the legitimacy of the documentation. The Hittites were large enough to be visible to contemporary historians and scriptures were used for information preserval. Even if our knowledge was only preserved through written documents, we'd have a good grasp of history 300 years ago, especially of major societies. People weren't primitive back then, they even had state archives with historical records which the Bible mentions in a few places for further reading.

wl 8 hours ago

flowerthoughts 11 hours ago

> This year’s excavation unearthed 131 cuneiform tablets and fragments which record an epidemic of fever, military logistics, religious practices and events of royal daily life 3,400 years ago.

Nice time machine you've got there. Not just vases and bones, but thoughts and societal complexities.

wl 9 hours ago

My Hittite language class went online during COVID and switched from studying royal annals to the Plague Prayers of Muršili II. One of the most enlightening parts of studying the ancient world is seeing that even in very alien cultures separated by millennia, we're all just people.

tourmalinetaco 8 hours ago

My favorite piece of this will always be the Pompeii bathroom graffiti, with all the usual suspects. Guys really are dudes and it’s a beautiful thing.

fittingopposite 3 hours ago

TedDoesntTalk 3 hours ago

pfdietz 9 hours ago

In the case of the Assyrian rulers, really terrible people.

BigTTYGothGF 7 hours ago

sherr 12 hours ago

The History Blog is a small gem because it is serious and not sensational. Always with a good level of detail for the average interested visitor, and from the original (or close by) sources. Plus pictures.

pluc 12 hours ago

And they support RSS! Albeit through WordPress but nobody's perfect

throw0101c 9 hours ago

> And they support RSS! Albeit through WordPress but nobody's perfect

As well as Atom, though there's no <link> for it in the HTML:

* https://www.thehistoryblog.com/feed/atom

* https://validator.w3.org/feed/check.cgi?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww...

jagged-chisel 11 hours ago

RSS is RSS. Does it matter to a client how it’s generated?

tyromaniac 7 hours ago

alsetmusic 7 hours ago

I wouldn’t have thought to check, so I greatly appreciate you mentioning this. Added to my feed in the category (literally) Nerd Blogs. I love history, so you’ve made my day.

ekjhgkejhgk 12 hours ago

What's wrong with WordPress?

pluc 11 hours ago

20after4 7 hours ago

alsetmusic 7 hours ago

simonh 8 hours ago

We have some copies of royal correspondence found in Egypt, written on cuneiform tablets. They used them for messages to foreign kings because they're compact and durable. A lot of the surviving tablets are begging letters asking the Egyptians for gold. We even have some practice tablets from teaching Egyptian scribes to do this.

Anyway I think some of these documents are of communications with Hittite kings, so it would be great to get some instances of the "other side" of some of these letters.

wl 8 hours ago

That would be Amarna Letters 41-44.

A quotation from a letter sent by Ankhesenamun, Tutankhamun's widow, to Hittite king Šuppiluliuma I was found in Ḫattuša. Ankhesenamun asked Šuppiluliuma to send her one of her sons to marry her and become king of Egypt. Šuppiluliuma initially thinks this is a ruse, but the story eventually checks out and Šuppiluliuma sends a son. That son is killed on his journey and a war between Egypt and Ḫattuša ensues.

palmotea 8 hours ago

> A lot of the surviving tablets are begging letters asking the Egyptians for gold. We even have some practice tablets from teaching Egyptian scribes to do this.

I'm imagining a class on "begging for gold" being given to young Egyptian scribes.

Telaneo 8 hours ago

Looking forward to seeing this expanding our understanding of the Hittite lexicon and its relationship with the rest of the Indo-European languages.

cmrdporcupine 5 hours ago

It looks like this is fairly late in Hittite's evolution, though, 14th century BCE.

Clarity about relationship with the rest of PIE would definitely be enhanced by having a corpus from substantially earlier on.

idoubtit 11 hours ago

This article rephrases and shortens the original article: https://www.dailysabah.com/life/hittite-royal-archive-with-1...

dizhn 7 hours ago

Ah Erdoğan's west facing mouthpiece.

vegnus 10 hours ago

This is such incredible news! I was just wondering the other day if we are ever going to find more Bronze age writings. Such an endlessly fascinating time period

timcobb 8 hours ago

What about it?

vegnus 8 hours ago

I always found the Jaynes' Bicameral Mind theory interesting, hypothesizing essentially Bronze age peoples did not have conscious thought, but attributed their thoughts to gods speaking to them. It's probably not true, but it's kind of like an era that can only exist through mythology and legend. So when actual details are discovered, and a little bit of the darkness is lifted, I always find it interesting

pfdietz 7 hours ago

Lumich 5 hours ago

timcobb 6 hours ago

Isamu 5 hours ago

I love that the comments on TFA include Unicode cuneiform, not images

doormatt 3 hours ago

Are there any complaints about the quality of copper?

ajb 9 hours ago

"Another notable document is a letter from Hittite generals in western Anatolia appealing to the king for reinforcements in men, horses and chariots to fend off enemy forces. "

I had assumed they had to wait for clay to dry before it could be carried anywhere, which seems incompatible with using them for urgent military messages. I wonder if there was a way to transport them while soft, or if this was just the archival copy of a message sent by other means.

ACS_Solver 8 hours ago

Most tablets were air dried, which would take a day or two. But some tablets were fired - dried in a kiln. I don't know about Hittites but at least in Mesopotamia, air drying was by far the most common method and only some important ones were fired. So methods were certainly available to dry a tablet quickly if necessary but I doubt if air drying delays made much of a difference. Messages and goods were limited to the speed of horse after all.

AnimalMuppet 9 hours ago

It's not like they had to wait for the clay to dry, and then sent the message via email over fiber optic cable. It would take days to reach the palace. Drying it (maybe in a small kiln?) first was a small part of the delay.

samudrijan 7 hours ago

Where do you think we get the expression clay pigeon? Earliest form of airmail…

einpoklum 11 hours ago

What artifacts are we leaving which will allow people in 3400 years to get a glimpse of daily events in our lives?

Digital information and toner/ink on paper will not last nearly that long.

Maybe humans of this age should be curating some etching on stone or even more durable materials, to record some of our history for posterity?

wl 9 hours ago

We've already seen this happen in the land of cuneiform. In the first millennium BCE, Akkadian cuneiform on tablets was replaced by Aramaic written on papyrus and vellum. The cuneiform survives in large quantity, the Aramaic barely at all. The Story of Aḥiqar, for example, comes from Mesopotamia and the only copy that survives in the original language somehow found its way to Elephantine in Egypt where the climate allowed it to (barely) survive. It puts Assyriologists in a weird position where there's plenty of textual documentation of earlier eras but far, far less in later eras. We're left with odd situations like the best documentation we have of Nebuchadnezzar II's reign coming from the Bible because the Bible got copied and the Babylonian texts that might provide a different emic perspective did not.

tourmalinetaco 7 hours ago

That’s not really an “odd” situation, though. That’s kind of just how it goes. The culturally important texts like the Bible get copied and spread, but who cares about the government’s documentation? Literally no one, unfortunately. Preservation within the historical record is in large part a mix of media used and popularity; a popular text can afford to be written on less durable materials, but using those less durable materials for unpopular documents? And they’ll be lost over time.

wl 7 hours ago

mcswell an hour ago

"The Rosetta Project is a global collaboration of language specialists and native speakers working to develop a contemporary version of the historic Rosetta Stone. Run by the Long Now Foundation, the project aims to create a survey and near-permanent archive of 1,500 languages that can enable comparative linguistic research and education and might help recover or revitalize lost languages in the future." --from the Wikipedia description of the Rosetta Project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Project

jopsen 9 hours ago

They can just ask you, you'll live on in the weights of the future models.

un-diletante 9 hours ago

I wonder if Claude will descend into hell to rescue the poor souls of those who died before it's coming, patiently awaiting digitization in the bosom of Turing.

veqq 3 hours ago

vegnus 8 hours ago

rantallion 11 hours ago

Isn't that one of the driving forces behind research like Project Silica? Sure, it won't capture everything that everyone produces, but the 'important stuff' can be preserved for millennia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5D_optical_data_storage

b112 10 hours ago

We have those CDs made of stone we could use! That's sorta a stone .. thing.

IAmBroom 9 hours ago

The data is preserved in plastic, which is (so far) a less-digestible hydrocarbon than wood (paper) and skin (vellum).

So, intermediary at best. My understanding is that R/W CDs are far less durable than earlier write-once CDs, but probably far less common for mass storage.

b112 8 hours ago

boo_you 4 hours ago

this blog just restates the article it links

jorblumesea 5 hours ago

This is really interesting because there's an active debate around who Tudhaliya II actually is and how the records overlap with Tudhaliya I. hopefully this will shed more light on early early new Hittite kingdom chronology.

01100011 8 hours ago

> One text tells of a fever epidemic that struck the infant daughter of the king. She was still a nursing baby when she became ill. She never recovered from the fever and her health declined precipitously until she passed away.

Wow, the infant daughter was nursing a baby? Were the Hittites like aphids which can be pregnant while still in the womb?

As much as I hate AI slop, sometimes I think people are better off leaving writing to robots.

neil_naveen 8 hours ago

The text says "a nursing baby," meaning the infant was being nursed, not that she was nursing a baby.

asveikau 4 hours ago

Seems like a fault of your English language parsing ability. Though deliberately misinterpreting grammar as you've done is a common type of joke that I appreciate.