Stolen Renoir paintings found hidden, and damaged, behind cinder block wall (cbsnews.com)
90 points by ohjeez 3 days ago
john_strinlai 7 hours ago
it seems crazy to me to steal a famous painting from a museum. the number of people willing to purchase a black market painting worth ~$millions is probably like a dozen, and the transaction would be super high risk. so many easier crimes to commit.
Aurornis 5 hours ago
> the number of people willing to purchase a black market painting worth ~$millions is probably like a dozen
You only need one.
With something like this I imagine you could hold on to it for years or even a lifetime waiting for the right connection to come along. Maybe some of them are even commissioned or pre-sold.
I can’t say I know anyone with stolen art, but over my lifetime I’ve known people across a range of wealth classes who got a thrill out of acquiring and owning something that was risky contraband.
tough 5 hours ago
One would think most jobs are "by order" and thus the customer comes before the risk
jimnotgym 4 hours ago
If you can wait out the statute of limitations you can of course sell it. It seems that in France that is not a thing in stolen art from a public collection
autoexec 3 hours ago
timcobb 4 hours ago
dennyabraham 6 hours ago
The numbers are higher than you'd expect. The trade in illegal (and so high rarity and limited access) goods is ongoing and flourishing via the use of third party intermediaries like free port systems [1] as well as networks of morally grey curatorial and preservation staff. Several notable archaeological "missing links" of the past few years came from said staff mediating access to private collections of undescribed provenance.
[1] https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2015/07/01/experts-identify-...
jongjong 28 minutes ago
It's weird though.
I don't understand why anyone would want to buy something outside of its legal socio-economic context, when that thing's entire value is derived from that context and is otherwise worth very little intrinsically based purely on aesthetic value.
Any market value it sells for is then based on some shared mental deficiency which prevents people from understanding that.
AnimalMuppet 12 minutes ago
tonyedgecombe 6 hours ago
For a while members of the mafia we’re stealing them to trade against their sentence if they got caught for some other crime.
dofm 5 hours ago
Or, since it’s a Renoir, maybe they were planning to distribute them as punishment.
“Thought you were going up in the world, did you Salvo? Oh no, no Armand Guillaumin for you. The boss ain’t pleased and he wants you to know about it. One more screwup and you’ll end up with a face like that”
john_strinlai 5 hours ago
SoftTalker 6 hours ago
Admit to additional crimes in exchange for a lighter sentence? How does that work?
dh2022 5 hours ago
DASD 6 hours ago
goodcanadian 6 hours ago
xp84 5 hours ago
gwbas1c 2 hours ago
A month or two I listened to a podcast about stolen art. To summarize:
1: The stolen art sits around for a LONG TIME.
2: The provenance (papers) is forged
3: The buyer usually doesn't look too closely. They're either willing to fool themselves, gullible, or otherwise should know better.
https://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-case-of-the-4-million-g...
dewey 3 hours ago
From the documentaries I've watched it's usually the other way around. There's either already a known buyer, or the thief has someone in their circles that already knows how to sell it. So there's a middleman between already trusted entities.
slop 2 hours ago
And then if you offer to sell it to someone, they could blackmail you unless you give it to them for free or cheaper.
pelagicAustral 5 hours ago
I would've thought thats what crypto was meant for.
slop 2 hours ago
Monero or Cash.
YVoyiatzis 5 hours ago
Unless you’re keeping it for yourself…
embedding-shape 5 hours ago
> the number of people willing to purchase a black market painting worth ~$millions is probably like a dozen
Right, but what about your local brick dealer who has 10-50K to waste on whatever? Definitely way more common and easier than you think to unload these sort of things, once you go down in price a lot because of the circumstances.
sandworm101 4 hours ago
There is specific Italian law about return of art. This would normally apply to people who stole the art but a careful lawyer could use this law to negotiate a reduced punishment for organized crime charges. If the art theft is described as a part of a larger criminal enterprise, then the return of that art could trigger a 2/3 reduction in punishment. See below (translated by google).
https://documenti.camera.it/leg18/dossier/testi/gi0031b.htm
"is committed by the person who has collaborated in identifying the co-conspirators or has ensured evidence of the crime or has effectively worked to prevent the criminal activity from being carried to further consequences or has recovered or had recovered the cultural property subject to the crime (penalty reduced from one third to two thirds)."
ericmay 5 hours ago
There are some “criminals” and criminal gangs and such, but I think the increase we have seen is due to Russia, Iran, and others who are giving extra resources and intelligence to some of these groups to deprive western institutions of their cultural heritage as part of the “hybrid war”.
Notice how things aren’t being stolen at this magnitude in China? Japan? If we’re Russian or Iranian for example I think this would be a great strategy if you view yourself at a civilizational war. Most of Europe is still asleep or in denial.
BonerWiener 4 hours ago
> Notice how things aren’t being stolen at this magnitude in China
Stealing from a Chinese museum would be extremely difficult. Cameras and security staff monitor exhibits during the day, and even after hours, extensive surveillance everywhere, makes it hard to get away unnoticed. The risk is simply too high
ericmay 4 hours ago
gvfsa 5 hours ago
I know posting deranged tirades about the supernatural powers of Russia is HN’s favourite pastime but this goes way too far.
ericmay 4 hours ago
xp84 5 hours ago
blobdole 4 hours ago
"It was through interrogation work that investigators were able to get the receiver of the stolen goods to admit that he had indeed taken possession of the paintings."
Humans are always the hole in the security you build, no matter how good the wall is.
glouwbug 4 hours ago
Interrogation is great, you can even get people to confess to things they didn't even do (from IASIP or something like that)
mosselman 3 hours ago
The thieves probably just wanted to buy a new gaming PC and thus had to resort to stealing 10 million worth of paintings.
I guess they were going to share the one PC.
dofm 6 hours ago
You mean they didn’t brick it back up when they discovered it was a Renoir?
Missed opportunity IMO. It was where it belongs.
You know how Anthropic has banned being cruel to its models? I wonder if the definition includes asking it to generate images in the style of Renoir…
https://www.instagram.com/renoir_sucks_at_painting/
https://news.artnet.com/art-world/art-bites-renoir-sucks-mov...
(ETA: Flagged, haha really? Come on. It’s a well-known running joke.)
SantalBlush 17 minutes ago
I had no idea this was a thing, but I made a similar joke about Renoir last month when the paintings were stolen, so I guess I belong in this club.
ericmay 6 hours ago
What are you talking about? Those are some of the best paintings ever created. Anyone trying to tell you different is probably a fascist or communist. Both authoritarian and hate-filled ideologies that have no place in modern or future societies.
ks2048 5 hours ago
Random fact: one of the socialist leaders of the Paris Commune saved Renoir's life.
ericmay 4 hours ago
dofm 6 hours ago
Fascists, communists, art critics, and people who can actually paint women’s faces.
(It’s a joke. Like Birds Aren’t Real)
ericmay 6 hours ago
matkoniecz 5 hours ago
> Anyone trying to tell you different is probably a fascist or communist.
are you serious and it is your actual position or is it also a joke?
ericmay 4 hours ago
moffkalast 4 hours ago
I though this was about The Swedish Job, but apparently this is a completely new Renoir theft? Did they not learn anything from the first one?
Insimwytim 5 hours ago
for a split second branch prediction in my head replaced 'cinder block wall' in the title with 'paywall'
jacquesm 4 hours ago
As long as you are eventually consistent it is all good.