KDE: The documentary [video] (tube.kockatoo.org)

352 points by mrkn1 10 hours ago

blinkingled 7 hours ago

Total KDE fan and that's all I run at home. It's an interesting study also in desktop environment and software written in C++ and just how hard it is to get something that works for most people. Mistakes, corrections, building the basic blocks like Qt in the early days and keeping a bunch of people with differing cultures / tastes / backgrounds/needs motivated to make it better every day - fascinating achievement.

Thank you KDE folks - I contribute in terms of bug reports and attempts at fixes sometimes but this time I am signing up for a monthly donation - I encourage people to do what they can to keep a good thing going! https://kde.org/donate/

fasterik 8 minutes ago

Agreed. I'm a late-comer to KDE, having used Linux for over 20 years but only switched to KDE in the past year. Too many annoying design decisions in GNOME and I got sick of wasting time configuring the trendy minimalist WMs. I find KDE to be a breath of fresh air. It's got sensible defaults, gets out of my way for the most part, and it's improved a lot since I last tried it in the mid-2000s.

mistyvales 3 hours ago

I also use KDE daily and need to add it to my yearly donations list (alongside FreeBSD, Signal, Bottles, and a few others).

brnt an hour ago

Im a KDE user since the early Plasma 5 days, which is now more than a decade ago. It's awesome, usable, configurable, sleek and fun!

A week ago I bought a cheap mini-htpc and put Plasma Bigscreen on it, using a phone with KDEconnect as remote. So easy to use! So much better than AndroidTV let alone proprietary crap.

KDE is just great.

pjmlp 5 hours ago

Yeah, additionally anyone at Microsoft that keeps throwing out half usable COM frameworks for C++ should spend some time with KParts, KIO and Qt D-Bus bindings, maybe they would finally learn how to properly design one.

mrinf1nity 35 minutes ago

KDE is how desktops should be. 'The Year of the Linux' is NOW, a few years ago. Linux and KDE have given me not only freedom over my own hardware, but freedom over how I interact with my desktops. Once you know the shortcuts, things become so much more fun. Much love to the KDE team.

Linux life, yo.

mongol 5 hours ago

I am a bit prod of having seen the original post looking for volunteers to build a Kool Desktop Environment. I was obsessively reading Usenet groups at the time. And I remember there were quite early betas published, I did not run them at first, but I remember much enthusiasm about it. So I feel familiar with the beginnings although I never participated in the project development-wise. All the way up to KDE 4 I was quite close to the project as a user. But since KDE 4 was so unstable and buggy, I left it around that time. This is also around the time when the documentary makes a big jump ahead chronologically.

I feel the documentary explains less what happened the last 10-15 years. I recall Trolltech and Qt underwent a series of acquisitions. How is KDE and Qt developed now? Who are the main contributors and sponsors? Any big backers? This information I felt missing.

bayindirh 4 hours ago

The problems in KDE 4.0 & 4.1 is long gone. It was at 3.5.x level around 4.6, and now it's just smooth and invisible. You can surely give another try.

Qt is now its own company, namely Qt Group. Wikipedia quotes:

> In 2018, the company had 5,000 customers. Approximately 80% of the Fortune 500 companies are customers of Qt Group.[22]

So it's self-sustaining now.

AFAIK, KDE is still mostly volunteer work, but the way they develop software is pretty robust.

Sammi 4 hours ago

Valve has been contracting KDE devs to fix bugs and add features for years now, as KDE is the desktop environment on SteamOS.

bayindirh 4 hours ago

ezst 5 hours ago

I joined as a user at one point during the kde3 days, powerful apps like Amarok 1.4, k3b and konqueror with all kinds of crazy kio-slaves were the ones that really gave me pause on the boot screen and kept tipping me over towards mandrake instead of WinXP ("why can't it be that simple and as well integrated, why do I need so many ad-hoc shareware to do every basic thing like burning/ripping CDs, mounting ISOs, transcoding audio, sending it to my MP3 player").

The KDE4 days were rough, by then I had jumped over to fedora, and that one didn't shy away from shipping very early and unstable versions of it. That had me hopping for alternative DEs, I seriously tried several (and stuck for a while with some) of the minimalistic ones (enlightenment, XFCE, ...) and quickly ended up depending on either KWin, and/or some battery/networking/disks applet from plasma, or configuring something via systemsettings. The plasma desktop itself is fine (I don't mind it so much, I'm not crazy about shell theming and customisations, I do love my global menu on top, though), but what sells KDE for me is all the clever ancillary stuff that makes it "smart and usable" (dealing with Bluetooth, network setup, local and remote drives, audio output, ...), that's where the "environment" metaphor kicks in and elevates the experience above that of a "desktop shell".

pndy 5 hours ago

> The KDE4 days were rough

Back then whenever I had a chance to try a distro with KDE 4, the Crash Handler window would pop after doing stupidest and simplest things within the desktop. Gnome 3 wasn't any better - it was more stable but departing from desktop metaphor to this mobile-desktop hybrid made me avoid it and pick Xfce instead. Which is shame because KDE4 despite the problems looked really well (and still does); I once said here that it had this "younger sister of Vista's Aero" vibe. It's really cool that they managed to bring Oxygen theme back.

exe34 5 hours ago

I also left Kde at the 4.0 time, and for a while was on Mac OS X, but nowadays I've given up on desktop environments - I just use xmonad and dmenu, and a mishmash of apps that serve my needs. I got tired of getting used to new/different affordances every few months/years.

vanviegen 3 hours ago

> I got tired of getting used to new/different affordances every few months/years.

Have those actually meaningfully changed in the last couple of decades of KDE? If so, I haven't noticed.

exe34 2 hours ago

aeonik 6 hours ago

Wow, great job everyone. Love seeing all the faces being the scenes, and the humble beginnings.

I remember the switch to KDE4, and it was indeed brutal. I feel bad that they took as much flak as they did for that.

Plasma has come such a long way, y'all deserve so much for the perseverance and vision.

Thank you for sharing the story!

k0morebi 7 hours ago

Been using for over 20 years now. KDE is really the best. Consistent between releases, stable, infinitely customizable, but works great out of the box with features you'd expect and often years ahead of the commercial competition in terms of new features. Every moment I spend in macos or windows for work is pure torture.

pimeys 6 hours ago

I used the betas, KDE 1-3, skipped 4 an 5, and I'm now back on the 6 train. It's really nice, and I try to use something else every now and then and I'm back in KDE a few weeks after.

cogman10 6 hours ago

5 was a bit rough at the start, but really was pretty nice by the time 6 came around.

6 has been great. If you are a windows or mac user, it's very close to that experience and very familiar.

pimeys 6 hours ago

k0morebi 5 hours ago

I don't remember the earliest version I used, but I vividly remember kde 3.5 and 4 because the transition was really rough. Major regressions and highly disruptive at first, but it laid the groundwork for modern kde and haven't had anything like that since. I jumped ship to gnome out of spite but was back to kde in short order.

pimeys 4 hours ago

sdwvit 8 hours ago

Wonderful quality documentary, just like KDE itself. Really nice to see people behind my favorite software.

moffkalast 7 hours ago

I'm so glad KDE exists to take a stand for the power user and customizability, while GNOME sinks ever more into androidification. Like come on, it's a desktop pc with a mouse and keyboard, not a fucking tablet where every icon needs to be 2 miles wide. Without KDE, linux would not be usable as a daily driver for me.

snowpid 6 hours ago

Its very annoying that some very loud people can not handle the fact that people different have needs. I like to use GNOME. Its fitting me better and dont insult of KDE developers because some people prefer it. The UI systems just have different assumptions and this is just fine.

arzig 6 hours ago

moffkalast 6 hours ago

2III7 7 hours ago

I've been using gnome for the past 10 years. Every time I try to use KDE it feels like a wannabe Windows DE, in it's default configuration anyway.

adrian_b 7 hours ago

moffkalast 7 hours ago

anotherevan 2 hours ago

I must have used KDE for close on two decades, from the 3.x days onwards. I seem to remember I ran Suse for a long time as it seemed to be the best distro for using with KDE.

About eight years ago I wanted to try a tiling window manager, ended up settling on Awesomewm and still with it today, but I still use Dolphin as I've found no other file manager compares. (Or maybe I'm just too comfortable with it to change.)

Also still use Konsole, but honestly, as soon as Ghostty or similar implement being able to switch tabs in MRU order instead of round-robin I'll jump.

I have a low-priority todo to give Cosmic, Hyprland and Niri a go at some point. Would be nice to go back into a fuller desktop experience over what I've cobbled together around "just" a window manager.

flyerbird 5 hours ago

Their story is inspirational; if this were a commercial project, they would surely have taken over the market. Hearing about the challenges they faced with Qt, and how their HTML engine was adopted by Apple, is so interesting.

KDE deserves a lot more.

madisp 3 hours ago

I recently switched to KDE on my main workstation and it has been such a breath fresh air. I can't exactly put my finger on it, but the mix between aesthetics, configurability and a bit of pre-2010s UX design is really good.

mpol 5 hours ago

Really great documentary, very much suggested to watch it.

I had no idea Gnome was started without ever talking to the Qt and KDE people. If there was discussion and a solution about the license, the present would be very different I assume. Still, there would be many WMs and DE's, but KDE would be somewhat of a centerpoint.

Also, Aaron Seigo took the criticism of KDE 4 quite hard I would guess. It might be why he is not involved in the project anymore.

WD-42 3 hours ago

I’m not sure if you grasp how bad the license situation was. Debian wasn’t even able to ship KDE, like at all. Something had to be done, well beyond “just have a conversation”.

mpol 2 hours ago

Well, you need to start with a conversation to find a solution together.

I can understand it to start your own thing, but not even starting a discussion seems a bit immature.

WD-42 2 hours ago

einpoklum 4 hours ago

> the present would be very different I assume.

I frankly doubt it. GNOME has pushed many problematic choices which KDE hasn't, or at least hadn't initially. From the anti-usability bent of the UI (few buttons, monochrome over color, non-configurability), to the dependence on systemd, to dropping X in favor of Wayland etc. And this is in part motivated IMHO by the organizational backing for GNOME which is different than KDE.

ahartmetz 3 hours ago

Disclaimer: I'm a KDE developer though not super active.

Regarding paid developers, it used to be a few people working for Suse on KDE vs a lot of people working for Red Hat on Gnome. That's not all there is to it because team Gnome also had to maintain GTK and team KDE didn't have to maintain Qt. Gnome had the advantage of having people paid to work on low-level services such as libxml, libdbus and such. AFAIK, today no desktop has many developers paid by distros. You can see it for example on GTK being maintained by like one guy.

Reportedly, external people and companies find KDE is easier to work with than Gnome, and that probably at least played into Valve selecting KDE. Valve's support led to (among other things) KDE having a really really good compositor / window manager. Highly reliable multi-screen support, fractional scaling, high dynamic range, variable refresh rate, frame scheduling for minimum latency (hell yeah), dimming with and without backlight control... a lot of good stuff.

CrLf 4 hours ago

In a documentary about KDE, it's interesting how many (most) of the people shown using a computer are running macOS...

rodolphoarruda 3 hours ago

That was my comment. It seems that they use MacOS as their primary system and have KDE running in VMs as "projects".

When I switched to Linux in 2008 (Ubuntu), I felt a big relief from not using Windows anymore, andnever turned back.

ulimn 3 hours ago

I was also surprised to see that they use Macbooks. I also have one but I find it a weird decision to showcase in a documentary about KDE.

Kudos to the guy with the Dell(?) laptop in the video. :)

praseodym 3 hours ago

Maybe some of those original developers have just moved on to new jobs and projects?

ElijahLynn 4 hours ago

I just watched the first 2 minutes and I didn't even know it stood for Cool Desktop Environment initially. And then it turned to KDE because they didn't want to use CDE.

At any rate, I'm busy right now, but I'm hooked and, and totally going to watch this. Thanks for posting it.

ahartmetz 3 hours ago

AFAIU, "can't start with C" was not an afterthought. It was explicitly meant to be the anti-CDE, something better to prevent the clunky and non-free CDE from becoming the default DE on Linux.

(I actually somewhat like the look of Motif, CDE's toolkit. It is maybe the association with reliable, expensive, professional (etc) Unix application software. While proprietary, still much cooler than Windows.)

jordanarseno 7 hours ago

A great way to start my morning, thank you for posting

ladyanita22 3 hours ago

I wonder if it was edited in Kdenlive

solveproblemswi an hour ago

Never new about the origin story. Really fun watch.

pelagicAustral 7 hours ago

I wish I could have a DE that looks like KDE 3 or before...

lproven 6 hours ago

Your wish is granted.

Want a whole new desktop?

https://www.trinitydesktop.org/

Want a whole new OS with it built in?

https://q4os.org/

Want to keep the KDE 6.x foundations but replace the desktop shell?

https://github.com/neeeeow/Klassik

pelagicAustral 5 hours ago

Holy shit! how did I missed this for so long?

lproven 5 hours ago

blooalien 6 hours ago

> I wish I could have a DE that looks like KDE 3 or before...

You probably want Trinity DE then. It's literally KDE 3, forked and maintained.

elendilm 7 hours ago

It is very hard to imagine what life would be without the awesomeness that KDE is.

einpoklum 4 hours ago

What is the country-of-residence distribution of KDE contributors? Originally, and today? Judging from the film, it seems like a lot of people from Germany and Finland (maybe other Scandinavian countries); but maybe it's just the documentary availability bias + my memory bias?

WD-42 3 hours ago

Kde has always leaned European and gnome the Americas.

vlowrian 7 hours ago

I've become a big fan of CultRepo's documentaries. If you enjoyed this one, I highly recommend checking out their catalogue of free, high-quality content (https://www.cultrepo.com/films).

They cover a wide range of topics, from C++ and Java to Node.js, Kubernetes, React, and Vue.js. I particularly enjoyed the Java documentary, which offered fascinating insights into the differences between the Sun and Oracle eras, many of which I never would have expected.

sick_of_slop 7 hours ago

I was a Gnome guy since the 16.04 Ubuntu days even with the transition to 3 and whatnot. Stopped using a linux desktop for a while but came back and used CachyOS - when deciding what desktop to use, everyone online said KDE so I gave it a shot and haven't look back since.

A few times I had to do something on a Gnome system and now it just feels like you're being kneecapped by the devs for no good reason.

tuna74 2 hours ago

How do you know if someone does not like Gnome?

Don't worry, they will talk about not liking Gnome even when the topic is something completely different.