Why did some Apollo missions carry a grenade launcher? (2019) (space.stackexchange.com)

220 points by Skyfall106 15 hours ago

marshray 6 hours ago

From November 2 to Nov 22 2018 the "DrSheldon" account asks exactly one question per day. https://space.stackexchange.com/users/drsheldon?tab=question...

Like this one, most of the questions are worded to enable an easy answer from a primary source.

In one instance the account answers its own question within the same minute: https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/31279/how-was-the-...

In another instance, the account replies to a comment with "Nonetheless, this would be the question to document any examples."

jrgifford 4 hours ago

Hi, former stack exchange moderator here.

This is normal and expected activity. We encouraged our users to write canonical answers, that could be run as community wikis (not everything got converted to a wiki, but many things did). One of the reasons was to take a spot in the top 3 on a search engine, in an attempt to displace some horrendous / ad riddled website that at best a bad user experience, and frequently was subtly wrong or incomplete.

Some examples: we settled on a canonical answer for “how to install packages in Ubuntu”, or when there was a particularly interesting question that was discussed in the chat rooms, someone might volunteer to consolidate that information and publish the Q&A as a wiki.

It’s just internet points. They’re not worth much.

marshray 4 hours ago

Indeed. The user later gets permission and community participation for future series of questions and identifies them as such: https://space.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1498/any-oppo... https://space.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1746/60th-ann...

jrgifford 2 hours ago

matheusmoreira 6 minutes ago

Answering one's own question is encouraged on stack exchange sites.

EmX_3000 4 hours ago

Activity simulators, they're called. A good way to make a web site feel alive even with no or few human visitors. 4chan does this. Reddit. X/Twitter. And others...

LeBit 5 hours ago

Remember the guy that was hyper active wrt C# questions maybe 10 years ago?

People were amazed he would answer every C# and WPF questions minutes after they were posted.

I am convinced to this day he did the same thing.

mattmanser 5 hours ago

LeBit 3 hours ago

fsloth 12 hours ago

"The mortar package is activated by the "arm grenades" and "fire grenades" commands from Earth. The arm grenades command is applied to and gated through the command gating to the grenade arming circuitwhich charges the regulaz and sequential firing capacitors of the four grenades by applying a Z4-volt arming signal. A grenade arm pulse is also applied to the data handling function indicating receipt of the command."

Page 2-170 (179 of the PDF) of reference [1].

[0] https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=19710014816 [1] https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19710014816/downloads/19...

0_____0 6 hours ago

OCR is letting you down a little bit here. Neat that you found this though!

throwawayffffas 13 hours ago

The soviets did regularly carry a gun. For survival purposes, as they were landing in Siberia which has wolves and pretty big bears.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TP-82

wongarsu 11 hours ago

Salyut 3 also had a "self-defence gun" derived from an aircraft autocannon mounted to the station, enabling them to shoot at approaching enemy spacecraft

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salyut_3#On-board_gun

dmos62 9 hours ago

> The gun was fixed to the station in such a way that the only way to aim would have been to change the orientation of the entire station.

Are these stations easier to maneuver than I imagine? Sounds like someone was imagining age of sail type of combat.

odyssey7 8 hours ago

saalweachter 7 hours ago

NooneAtAll5 8 hours ago

weezing 5 hours ago

Russian paranoia at its finest

robotnikman 3 hours ago

Inteestingly, a lot of military aircraft at the time carried similar guns. They were meant for use by the pilot in case the landed in the wilderness after bailing out of the plane, for hunting and defending from stuff like bears.

mauvehaus 43 minutes ago

Henry Repeating Arms (apparently no relation to the original designer of the lever action) still makes the AR-7[0]. As near as I can tell it was designed for this purpose, but never actually issued to USAF aircrews. There are a handful of other USAF aircrew survival weapons linked from there.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite_AR-7

sebzim4500 10 hours ago

I believe people involved in the program have since admitted that this was mostly to commit suicide in case they got stuck with no way home

throwawayffffas 7 hours ago

They already had a makarov pistol with them from the start. They made this custom short barrel double shotgun with a third rifle barrel.

This was to fend off wild life and maybe hunting while waiting for the recovery team to get to them if they came down far from the designated recovery zone.

SXX 7 hours ago

Source?

Over the years at least 7 soviet missions landed off-target including Yuri Gagarin.

And not like 100-500 meters off target, but 200-600 kilometers. Having a gun in such cases make perfect sense.

NooneAtAll5 8 hours ago

feels like you just invented this lie on the spot

fhdkweig 6 hours ago

pavel_lishin 9 hours ago

Surely a chemical/biological solution would have been easier, cheaper, lighter, and less likely to fail.

sebzim4500 7 hours ago

throwawayffffas 7 hours ago

fnord77 7 hours ago

scrumper 7 hours ago

lanyard-textile 9 hours ago

echelon 9 hours ago

I imagine you can't take turns easily once there's a hole in the ship.

On the other hand, there are legitimate predators that will hunt and eat humans in Siberia. One team encountered wolves that they had trouble fending off, so they upgraded the pistol to a more formidable shotgun/rifle combo.

Cpoll 7 hours ago

quuxplusone an hour ago

kakacik 7 hours ago

Yeah thats why you invent small 2 barrel shotgun with big ammo and carry it all the way into space, while even small makarov pistol would fulfill that role

jeltz 12 hours ago

Feels a bit excessive. Wolves and brown bears generally avoid humans. Polar bears see us as food but brown bears do not.

tliltocatl 10 hours ago

26 fatalities due to bear attacks this year: https://tass.ru/obschestvo/28211259 https://eia.media/ru/article/society/6aa937759a7947f75201876... https://www.rbc.ru/society/15/09/2026/6aa937759a7947f7520187... This year bear encounters made headlines in Russia, but the number of fatalities isn't unusual. Records is 80/year in 1985, 1986 and 1996. Brown bears don't see us as food as long as there is some other food available. If food is scarce this year (some random dude on the internet says that there were an early thaw followed by freeze in 2024 that cause pine cone yield in 2026 to fail) they might attack. Either out of desperation or when encountered over a food source (i. e. garbage dump) and mistakes a human for a competitor.

wongarsu 12 hours ago

You might be underestimating how remote some Soviet capsules landed. If they overshot their landing site they might be alone in the wilderness for days until rescue teams arrived

"Kosmonaut survives space mission, gets mauled by bear protecting her cub" is not a great headline. Bringing gun was relatively cheap insurance

Geezus_42 11 hours ago

lenerdenator 7 hours ago

dimview 11 hours ago

Brown bears attack people in Russia quite frequently [1].

[1] https://meduza.io/en/feature/2026/09/11/russia-has-a-bear-pr...

SapporoChris 11 hours ago

I think it's important not to overgeneralize with something that might potentially kill you. The brown bears in Japan can be deadly. A 380 kg and 2.7-m-tall brown bear, which twice attacked the village of Tomamae, killing 7 people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ussuri_brown_bear#Interactions...

dghlsakjg 8 hours ago

There was a brown (North American Grizzly) predation attack on Nov 2. It’s rare, but not unheard of.

Wolf predation attacks on humans are rare, but far more common than brown bear attacks.

matkoniecz 9 hours ago

Landing in remote part of Siberia is not a typical situation and many typical assumptions do not apply.

grosswait 12 hours ago

If you’re a pilot or cosmonaut in Siberia, you might not have come down as planned and might be there for a while. An injured, possibly bleeding human could be easy prey. They also have tigers…

Hnrobert42 12 hours ago

"Generally" implies there are exceptions. Would hate to be unprepared.

jeltz 11 hours ago

themaninthedark 9 hours ago

What about lunar bears or Saturn bears? Those seem to be heavily armed.

https://youtu.be/pvjgIxuVdo4?is=7sF64RM0qTNqJguw

wildzzz 6 hours ago

"generally". A hungry bear or wolf might be tempted to mess with an injured cosmonaut.

cykros 12 hours ago

It's never excessive to carry a gun.

SV_BubbleTime 8 hours ago

Ylpertnodi 8 hours ago

vbezhenar 10 hours ago

There also might be some unfriendly people. Like escaped convicts living in the woods, in the middle of nowhere.

Betelbuddy 6 hours ago

>> wolves and pretty big bears.

So the pistol was presumably for the astronaut to use on himself?

varjag 11 hours ago

They most certainly have a shank stashed on ISS somewhere

raffael_de 10 hours ago

The question is pretty unnecessary given that it references the "ALSEP Flight System Familiarization Manual" [1] which also goes into detail about the purpose of the grenade launcher.

1: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=19710014816

jjordan 6 hours ago

Closed as duplicate. Your question is bad and you should feel bad.

~Every StackExchange mod ever.

fjd 7 hours ago

Went down a rabbit hole to see if the Apollo "thumpers" were named so because of Dune. Apparently there were a few terrestrial thumpers in use by oil and gas surveyors prior to the book and missions... whomp whomp.

franky47 13 hours ago

    nasa employee: oh hey u guys are back early
    astronaut: moon's haunted
    nasa employee: what?
    astronaut: *loading a pistol and getting back on the rocket-ship* moon's haunted.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/moons-haunted

Hnrobert42 12 hours ago

Normally, I am glad that Hacker News policies meme references. There is already a reddit.

But I liked this comment be caused of its know your meme link. I learned something.

Well, I learned two things. One, I learned about the meme. Two, I learned not to trust Know Your Meme when it asks me to turn off my adblocker!

arcanemachiner 11 hours ago

> I learned not to trust Know Your Meme when it asks me to turn off my adblocker

Now why on Earth would you comply with that request?!

Hnrobert42 10 hours ago

NooneAtAll5 8 hours ago

> Two, I learned not to trust Know Your Meme when it asks me to turn off my adblocker!

don't you know that correct way is to treat any "turn off your adblocker" notification as another ad?

whoishiding 12 hours ago

znpy 11 hours ago

I refrained from posting a humorous comment otherwise my reply would have been “becase you never know”

stared 11 hours ago

Doom 3 motto: "The UAC is making safer worlds through superior firepower."

wongarsu 14 hours ago

Now I'm wondering how far a regular military grenade launcher could lauch grenades on the moon

moritonal 14 hours ago

About six times further with zero drag. So 3.6Km, or from Buckingham Palace to St Paul's Cathedral.

yokoprime 11 hours ago

We could also say it's about a 15 minute run for a healthy person

dmos62 9 hours ago

johannes1234321 13 hours ago

Since there is no atmosphere even a bit further.

LoganDark 13 hours ago

pimlottc 3 hours ago

I'd like to hear more about the alternate reality in which this ballistics exchange is taking place

tetha 11 hours ago

And the follow-up question: Could it put one into a moon orbit if done right?

mattmaroon 10 hours ago

There are a few guns that exist that could achieve the necessary velocity (just shy of 4,000 mph) but they’re not handheld. But yes, it would be possible for the right gun to fire a bullet that went around the moon and hit you in the back of the head.

m4rtink 5 hours ago

m0llusk 10 hours ago

Like it was just a default for the game engine they were using.

superkuh 6 hours ago

Does anyone know why they had the grenade launcher? stackexchange decided a few false positives humans getting blocked was okay if they could mitigate the corporate bots and block most of them. The end result is that I can't read the page.

dtgriscom 12 hours ago

First thought: were these fragmentation grenades? Second though: nope: not useful for seismic research. Third though: on the moon, thrown fragmentation grenades wouldn't be safe for the thrower.

amelius 10 hours ago

Without fragmentation, isn't it just going to fly off in one direction with very little damage in any other direction?

IX-103 9 hours ago

All grenades have a casing the "fragments" when they go off, but some use thicker, heavier, scored metal casings to maximize the anti-personel effects of the resulting shrapnel. If you don't want shrapnel, then you make the casing light and arrange for it to break into fewer pieces. So grenades designed to produce more, heavier, sharper fragments are called fragmentation grenades.

alentred 4 hours ago

From the comments:

> Due to an influx of joke comments, all joke comments on this post will be deleted

I think this is pretty much the story of late Stack Exchange.

eaf7e281 6 hours ago

to show the moon people who's boss

phendrenad2 11 hours ago

Because the howitzer wouldn't fit?

mitthrowaway2 7 hours ago

Michael Bay added it so that the official Apollo Mission action figures would sell better.[1]

[1] https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/257651-armageddon-gatli...

shevy-java 12 hours ago

To gun down the aliens. The answer is so obvious.

vconnor 13 hours ago

> They were part of an active seismic imaging experiment

That is what we call plausible deniability.

(Everyone complaining about this topic inviting jokes, and I’m the first to have posted one. Drama sells more than silly jokes these days.)

aeonik 12 hours ago

I'm sure it's the literal truth.

Never know when you need to seismically image some hostiles for scientific verification of threat elimination.

TeMPOraL 9 hours ago

Probably was both. NASA got a COTS component for their seismologic experiment, saving some time/budget on R&D, and military got to have a grenade launcher tested on the Moon, providing data for whatever "future warfare" programs they were surely running back then.

I think these days we call this "synergy"?

m4rtink 5 hours ago

barbazoo 8 hours ago

> We and our (263!!!) partners perform the following based on your settings:

> Use precise geolocation data.

Why does this site need to share my precise geolocation with 263 partners? It's madness.

sapirrior 11 hours ago

Hmm

akmarinov 14 hours ago

> Due to an influx of joke comments, all joke comments on this post will be deleted.

And then they wonder why the whole group is dying

circularfoyers 14 hours ago

The alternative to me seems to be becoming like a lot of subs on Reddit. It's part of why I like HN so much too, where the signal to noise is so much better.

tsunamifury 13 hours ago

It’s not you’re just fooled but garbage people with false bravado.

cbg0 13 hours ago

shevy-java 12 hours ago

On reddit there was a ton of censorship.

I dislike censorship in general. Someone else decides whether I may read comment xyz from another human being (assuming it is a human being). I don't want censor-in-the-middle people, be it on HN or reddit. Old reddit was easier to use than HN though; on HN we get time-locked as well as jokes-eliminated. That forces a more serious tone. I do not think it really improves the signal to noise ratio though; usually it means that there are fewer comments in general, including potentially interesting comments. I mean, if HN were serious about joke-censorship, any funny story shared by someone else on HN, even if historically accurate, would also have to be censored. After all you can not evaluate whether a claimed story to be true, to NOT be a "joke in disguise". I could go on and on here, but at the end of the day it just boils down as to whether people like censorship or not. You may reason that you prefer it, to "pre-filter away content you never want to read", such as a joke, but for me, I just dislike that someone else sits in the driver seat and tells me what I am allowed to read and what not. I want to decide on that on my own and I have no issue with "noise ratio"; I don't read all comments anyway, simply due to lack of time. I can only glimpse at some of them. Do you really have the time to go through all comments on each entry on HN?

Sharlin 11 hours ago

tiborsaas 12 hours ago

Yet, Reddit is alive and SE is... "struggling". Good jokes also carry information, that's why they work.

em3rgent0rdr 9 hours ago

pasc1878 11 hours ago

dspillett 14 hours ago

Nicely editorialised there, skipping the second half:

> However, we would appreciate your sense of humor in chat if you want to drop by!However, we would appreciate your sense of humor in chat if you want to drop by!

On HN many purely jokey comments are often discouraged, being down-voted and getting replies along the lines of "this isn't Reddit". Is HN dying, by the same measure?

saaaaaam 12 hours ago

I think there’s a distinct difference between a community collectively deprecating something, versus individual members of a community deciding what will and will not be deleted. The first means the comments just fall away, while the second (and a statement of “we will delete your content it is not welcome here”) is actively off-putting not only to those who post that sort of content but others passing by who may be put off posting anything in case they unknowingly “break the rules”.

dspillett 11 hours ago

abbadadda 14 hours ago

I was going to say the same. They did follow up with “However, we would appreciate your sense of humor in chat if you want to drop by!” but the bolded comment above significantly outweighs this.

At least this earlier comment was deemed relevant and not too jokey:

> Even more fun, Apollo 14 didn't use their grenades, and they are still on the lunar surface.

realusername 13 hours ago

At least here it's jokes, sometimes they ask people to put valuable comments inside the chat, which is of course not publicly accessible so it's lost

whycombilater 12 hours ago

Maybe they are courting the AI agent demographic...

wiseowise 13 hours ago

God forbid resource doesn’t turn into a group rewarding regurgitated jokes for internet points, it would insane. Every time I read some serious (ughhrr) book, I write trite irony on margins because I can’t process information like a normal human being anymore without turning everything into shit.

tornikeo 12 hours ago

Curious, I checked that person's homepage. Looks about right for the 'no fun allowed' attitude:

https://called2voyage.github.io/